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HS FOOTBALL & PRAYER

84rider

D1A Prospect
Feb 27, 2009
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LEWES, Del. - Close to two weeks after the Cape Henlopen School District received a warning from an advocacy group about a potential violation of Separation of Church and State, the Superintendent is now making a statement, prompting some criticisms from school board members.

The debate began on Oct. 8, when the Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter to Superintendent Bob Fulton, saying Cape football coach Bill Collick was breaking the law by praying with team before games. In response many Sussex County residents came to Collick's defense, saying he was merely participating in a student-run prayer.

Fulton's response said the district will now remind all coaches and teachers that prayer is not allowed in school-events, including sporting events. But some school board members spoke out against this response, saying Collick did nothing wrong.

"I can assure you that our employees including coaches will be reminded of laws involving the separation of Church and State," Fulton said in the letter. "And will respond accordingly so that an objective/reasonable observer will not perceive their actions as endorsing religion in the future."

In response, school board member Sandi Minard said she was disappointed in Fulton's letter.

"The community has overwhelmingly supported Coach Collick," she said. "And for us to allow a scare tactic group from Wisconsin to come in and tell us what we are going to do is unbelievable."

The foundation's attorney Elizabeth Cavell said that the warning had legal backing, from past court cases.

"It's not appropriate," she said. "And it's not legal."

Cavell's initial letter to Fulton referenced various court cases to set precedence.

In Borden v. School District of the Township of East Brunswick, the court found that a football coach had "violated the Establishment Clause by 'bow[ing] his head and tak[ing] a knee while his team pray[ed].'"

In another case, Doe v. Duncanville Independent School District, the court found it unconstitutional for a basketball coach to participate in student prayer circles, calling it an "endorsement of religion."

"They're endorsing that religious practice," Cavell said of coach participation. "And that crosses the line and violates the establishment clause. So they're giving the appearance that they approve of and they endorse these activities by participating and showing solidarity with students who are doing it."

A block away from the high school, WBOC met with Pastor Dave Munro from the First Baptist Church in Lewes. He said stopping Collick from participating in a student-run prayer would go beyond protecting the Separation of Church and State, and would instead hurt Collick's first amendment rights to practice a religion.

"I think he has the personal right to exercise his religion," he said. "To lean in and listen to the students. It would seem to me that if he were restricted from doing that, then his personal rights would be violated
 
This stroy is happenening all over the country... This Wisconsin group is attacking prayers at High School sporting events everywhere without even one complaint coming from the communities themselves or students/parents from these schools. . call me crazy but shouldn't the towns and communites decide what they will tolerate on this issue?

"freedom from religion" does not mean you have a right not to have to witness folks exercising their religion in public.. nothing close to it..





This post was edited on 10/21 1:38 PM by ravensrooster2
 
I know Cape isnt the only team to pray before and sometimes after a game, are catholic and/or independent schools exempt from this policy? i would like to hear some feedback on this topic. I found it interesting that students can pray but coaches are not supposed to pray( with students). At the same time coaches are supposed to be a positive influence on our kids. Not saying that praying is the only way to be a good influence but it sure doesnt hurt. If a kid goes down on the field with a serious injury, is it wrong for the coach to pray for that kid? Are we telling our kids its only appropriate to pray under certain conditions. somebody please shed some light on this subject.
 
Umm its freedom OF religion...not freedom From religion. Problem is we have twisted it to be the From rather than the original meaning and purpose.
 
Originally posted by UR44DB:
Umm its freedom OF religion...not freedom From religion. Problem is we have twisted it to be the From rather than the original meaning and purpose.
The "Freedom From Religion" foundation is what this group is called. which yes I get the play on words.. They are the largest atheist SIG in the country with over 20K members all over the US.. They have compiled a massive ammounts of law suites all over the country from suing a flower shop, to suing parks with religious monuments in them even the IRS etc etc etc..Its crazy some of the stuff this group has been able to get rid of out of public view.. . For whatever reason HS football games seems to be their target this fall..



This post was edited on 10/21 12:48 PM by ravensrooster2
 
This is a shame we are even giving this BS any time. Collick keep teachimg our young athletes teh right way to do things on teh football filed and off. If a kid dows not want to be apart of it this is tehre choice. Same as a Coach. I can't beleive teh district is listening to such a IDIOT group...
 
The key word here is perceived. He was perceived as praying. Prove to me that he was. Perhaps he just bowed his head as his team was praying and was thinking about his first offensive series. Perhaps he was thinking about his first defensive series. Perhaps he was thinking about his family and the list could never end. The letter from this politically correct foundation with to much time on their hands should have been given the proper attention it deserved. It should been thrown straight into the garbage. I am disappointed in the districts response.
 
Originally posted by vertical stripes:
The key word here is perceived. He was perceived as praying. Prove to me that he was. Perhaps he just bowed his head as his team was praying and was thinking about his first offensive series. Perhaps he was thinking about his first defensive series. Perhaps he was thinking about his family and the list could never end. The letter from this politically correct foundation with to much time on their hands should have been given the proper attention it deserved. It should been thrown straight into the garbage. I am disappointed in the districts response.
You are way off base Vert, The coaches are simply listening in to see if the boys say something in appropriate. It's all just part of being a coach, you have to make sure your guys don't cause trouble. Thank (insert your deity here) for that. Don't worry Wisconsin, I will find room for you in my prayers tonight.
 
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This post was edited on 10/21 8:06 PM by ravensrooster2
 
Originally posted by 84rider:

I know Cape isnt the only team to pray before and sometimes after a game, are catholic and/or independent schools exempt from this policy? i would like to hear some feedback on this topic. I found it interesting that students can pray but coaches are not supposed to pray( with students). At the same time coaches are supposed to be a positive influence on our kids. Not saying that praying is the only way to be a good influence but it sure doesnt hurt. If a kid goes down on the field with a serious injury, is it wrong for the coach to pray for that kid? Are we telling our kids its only appropriate to pray under certain conditions. somebody please shed some light on this subject.
Catholic and private schools are not "exempt" as such. The Constitutional issues simply do not apply. Public schools have significant links to the government and the 1st Amendmend at its core deals with laws being passed and governmental activities that impact people's religious practices --- constitutional issues arise when some degree of governmental "entanglement" is involved.

In a diverse society like ours, I support the notion that public schools should avoid prayers that are specifically Christian (or Jewish, Muslim etc although that never occurs) because it does show a preference for those beliefs and and at a minimum implies an endorsement of those beliefs. A major reason Catholic schools were started was because many public schools were requiring catholic students to say "protestant" prayers, readings from the KJV etc. It was a very overt form of proselytizing -- a different era and much different than the situation at Cape.

In my view, if prayers or activities are non-sectarian -- there is no problem. I think that is the freedom "from" religion concern people have mentioned.


Google "lemon test" for more insights.
 
While this is not my belief, I do believe this is a valid counter point to the separation argument. Contraception is against the teachings of the Catholic Church, yet it is still put forth in our public schools. What if a Catholic objected to this being taught? Would their right to religious freedom be taken into account? If a 16 year old felt they were being alienated, because they refused to pick up a condom from the school nurse, would the practice stop? I'm not against prayer, I'm not against birth control, but I am against entire groups of people being forced to hide who they are because a few people feel left out.
 
Originally posted by 84rider:

A block away from the high school, WBOC met with Pastor Dave Munro from the First Baptist Church in Lewes. He said stopping Collick from participating in a student-run prayer would go beyond protecting the Separation of Church and State, and would instead hurt Collick's first amendment rights to practice a religion.

"I think he has the personal right to exercise his religion," he said. "To lean in and listen to the students. It would seem to me that if he were restricted from doing that, then his personal rights would be violated
Pastor Munro is on point. This is a sticky situation for the school district.
 
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