Goes to the Hutchinson twins of Smyrna.. Elijah and Joshua.. It seemed like every tackle the announcer called was a Hutchinson.. Stellar LB play by those boys.. #38 and #41 both juniors
RR2's unsung hero award
- Thread starter ravensrooster2
- Start date
They've should've made every tackle because the people planning to block them were chop blocked the whole game.
You know I am one of the few people above the canal who has talked up Smryna most of the year and they do a lot of things very well. I'm coming to understand they were chop blocking the whole game. Some vo-tech coaches who have no love for Sallies were calling it the whole game. It was the lynchpin in how they held Colby Reeder in check.
I know the "tough guys" on here questioned the need for such a rule but they fact it chopping someone like that puts the defensive player at risk. It was very lucky nobody's knee was blown up. That's why the block is illegal. For all the great things Judy has done at Smyrna that is a pretty despicable way to structure your defense and shows a lack of respect or concern for the safety of your opponents.
I can't wait for Joe Mangano to defend it but it really takes Smrna a few notches down in my mind.
You know I am one of the few people above the canal who has talked up Smryna most of the year and they do a lot of things very well. I'm coming to understand they were chop blocking the whole game. Some vo-tech coaches who have no love for Sallies were calling it the whole game. It was the lynchpin in how they held Colby Reeder in check.
I know the "tough guys" on here questioned the need for such a rule but they fact it chopping someone like that puts the defensive player at risk. It was very lucky nobody's knee was blown up. That's why the block is illegal. For all the great things Judy has done at Smyrna that is a pretty despicable way to structure your defense and shows a lack of respect or concern for the safety of your opponents.
I can't wait for Joe Mangano to defend it but it really takes Smrna a few notches down in my mind.
Hard to believe that it took until the 4th Qtr for the refs to make the calls. Even harder to believe that play action adjustments weren't made to capture the LB's crashing the box.
Here's my thing if you're a linebacker and you have to take on a 250 pound guard or tackle the only option you have in some circumstances is to cut the guy . Even sometimes I remember our noseguard basically making a pile by cutting the center . I'm not condoning it because it's illegal but growing up that's what we were taught to do and now it's against the rules. It is pretty bad that it took the officials until the fourth quarter to actually enforce the rule, that's terrible. I guess maybe the officials were intimidated after getting booed off the field at halftime .
I doubt you will hear DiNardo complain about it. They probably are not happy I brought it up. Last week a lot of people from Smyrna wanted some official's head because a WP player pushed their quarter back down hard on one play. I doubt Marvin Dooley asked his kid to do that.
This was by all appearances an integral part of the Smyrna's defensive scheme and they executed it well. The fact that is is illegal in not my major concern....some teams plan to hold on offense for example .... put this is illegal because it is unreasonably dangerous and their coaches had their players do it play after play after play.
If someone's knee was blown this would've risen to a whole different level of stink. As it is it went largely unnoticed...yeah Judy you're a genius
This was by all appearances an integral part of the Smyrna's defensive scheme and they executed it well. The fact that is is illegal in not my major concern....some teams plan to hold on offense for example .... put this is illegal because it is unreasonably dangerous and their coaches had their players do it play after play after play.
If someone's knee was blown this would've risen to a whole different level of stink. As it is it went largely unnoticed...yeah Judy you're a genius
No - chop block is the wrong term for us to use. It was more crashing the gaps, low and below the knees. I didn't see it at first early in the game. I finally noticed it when I saw Colby Reeder jumping over players. Also noticed it with his seeming off-balanced tumbled into the line. It looked like he was hurt because he wasn't running in his normal upright, powerful style.
I believe that to be a legal play, as long as they are not targeting the knees. This is much the same as short yardage defense, low man wins. This may have been done to take away the running game and force the Salies substitute QB to have to put the ball in the air.
Blue Tea please get your terms right.. In all of my years of coaching (Sounds like a hell of lot more then yours) I have never heard of a defensive player "Chop Blocking".. What are you talking about?
Chop blocking as explained earlier is when an offensive player is engaged with a defensive player (Usually an OL but it can be a TE, WR, etc..). So lets say the right guard is covered and fires out and blocks the three technique in front of him.. Now lets say the right tackle at the same instance comes down and blocks the three technique below the waist. That is a CHOP BLOCK. Some people call it a HIGH / LOW block.. THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS A CUT BLOCK!!! Yes a chop is illegal and has been illegal for over 40 years. It is not something any coaches teach but sometimes by accident they do occur. But a Chop and Cut are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!
Blue Tea - Please explain to me how a defensive lineman performs a chop block on an offensive lineman? Are you Saying that two defensive lineman high low an offensive lineman? So are you saying the DT over the guard holds him up and the DE comes down and chops the guard low while the guard is engaged? So the DE is giving up his gap (Probably two which MAKES NO SENSE IF YOU RUN DEFENSE) to come down and chop block... Are you sure that is right? Makes NO SENSE!!
Now Blue Tea if you are talking about cutting - well YES that is part of the game. And guess what GET OVER IT. I guess you really have no clue. Hey I was an offensive lineman on a team that ran Counter 20 plus times a game. Guess what good defensive ends did to me when they saw me coming to kick them out.. They WRONG ARMED ME!! They cut me. So what? Part of the deal. Cutting in the box at the high school level is legal. As mentioned before.
Now if Linebackers cut fullbacks or cut pullers outside of the tackle box yes that it is illegal. As I have mentioned that gets called a few times a year. But Blue Tea cutting is far from dirty and it is far from illegal and all good programs teach it and practice it. ESPECIALLY when playing a downhill running team that runs power/counter the way Sallies does. We run similar schemes at times like Sallies and we get cut, etc... You have two options -
Cut or Wrong Arm the Wrong Armer.. Or Log the wrong arm/cut and bounce the play outside. Or Finally not run the gap plays.. You can really screw with them and do some gap shovel option or inverted veer.
Honestly that is why many times get away form GAP/Counter/Power type of schemes and use more zone concepts because a team that cuts/wrong arms will take that play away and spill it to your linebackers and safeties.
Need diagrams/video, etc..Blue Team I can share it with you...
Sounds like your terms are all jacked up.. Might need to educate yourself a little bit more on the game football.
Chop blocking as explained earlier is when an offensive player is engaged with a defensive player (Usually an OL but it can be a TE, WR, etc..). So lets say the right guard is covered and fires out and blocks the three technique in front of him.. Now lets say the right tackle at the same instance comes down and blocks the three technique below the waist. That is a CHOP BLOCK. Some people call it a HIGH / LOW block.. THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS A CUT BLOCK!!! Yes a chop is illegal and has been illegal for over 40 years. It is not something any coaches teach but sometimes by accident they do occur. But a Chop and Cut are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!
Blue Tea - Please explain to me how a defensive lineman performs a chop block on an offensive lineman? Are you Saying that two defensive lineman high low an offensive lineman? So are you saying the DT over the guard holds him up and the DE comes down and chops the guard low while the guard is engaged? So the DE is giving up his gap (Probably two which MAKES NO SENSE IF YOU RUN DEFENSE) to come down and chop block... Are you sure that is right? Makes NO SENSE!!
Now Blue Tea if you are talking about cutting - well YES that is part of the game. And guess what GET OVER IT. I guess you really have no clue. Hey I was an offensive lineman on a team that ran Counter 20 plus times a game. Guess what good defensive ends did to me when they saw me coming to kick them out.. They WRONG ARMED ME!! They cut me. So what? Part of the deal. Cutting in the box at the high school level is legal. As mentioned before.
Now if Linebackers cut fullbacks or cut pullers outside of the tackle box yes that it is illegal. As I have mentioned that gets called a few times a year. But Blue Tea cutting is far from dirty and it is far from illegal and all good programs teach it and practice it. ESPECIALLY when playing a downhill running team that runs power/counter the way Sallies does. We run similar schemes at times like Sallies and we get cut, etc... You have two options -
Cut or Wrong Arm the Wrong Armer.. Or Log the wrong arm/cut and bounce the play outside. Or Finally not run the gap plays.. You can really screw with them and do some gap shovel option or inverted veer.
Honestly that is why many times get away form GAP/Counter/Power type of schemes and use more zone concepts because a team that cuts/wrong arms will take that play away and spill it to your linebackers and safeties.
Need diagrams/video, etc..Blue Team I can share it with you...
Sounds like your terms are all jacked up.. Might need to educate yourself a little bit more on the game football.
What they were doing was not Really chop blocking. Cutting is legal in the box with down linemen, which they didn't have many.Their backers and backs were diving at the ankles of lead blockers out of the box especially that of the Fb leading through the hole. It was completely illegal and very dangerous. They were flagged for it a couple of times but not nearly enough to stop it. Hats off to the Smyrna coaches it worked.
Last edited:
Blue T...are you also going to complain about the targeting with the helmet on Knight as he threw the ball? Or the related slapping hands with teammates by the offending player as he lay on the ground being attended to? Or maybe the deliberate attempt to throw Henderson's head into the ground by one player as he was already being brought to the ground by another player? Just wondering since your righteous indignation probably activates when dirty plays occur regardless of its origin.
Thanks, Coach. That was the point I tried to make earlier without all of the extraneous bs. Despite what you think, BT is very knowledgable, but I'm sure he greatly appreciates your clarifications.
I am not a fan of the cut block. In fact, I played in college years ago for one of the most prolific Wish Bone teams. Most of our blocks were cut blocks.
Obviously, that has changed in recent years as they've tried to protect knees. It was amazing to see the numbers of knees destroyed every year when I played. And, add me to that list with three knee surgeries - 2 ACL, 1 MCL.
That's why what we saw Saturday is wrong. Trying to Take out the POY'a knees, risking injury far more than normal, is flat out, wrong
I am not a fan of the cut block. In fact, I played in college years ago for one of the most prolific Wish Bone teams. Most of our blocks were cut blocks.
Obviously, that has changed in recent years as they've tried to protect knees. It was amazing to see the numbers of knees destroyed every year when I played. And, add me to that list with three knee surgeries - 2 ACL, 1 MCL.
That's why what we saw Saturday is wrong. Trying to Take out the POY'a knees, risking injury far more than normal, is flat out, wrong
Cut blocking is totally legal at the college level everywhere.. You can cut linebackers, dbs, etc... In the same regards LBers and DBs can cut Fullbacks and pulling guards.. etc.
High School level cut blocking is actually legal everywhere on the field in Texas and Mass... 2 states.
Again if you cut in the legal zone within the tackle box it is totally legal at all levels.. It is not illegal nor is it frowned upon. It is part of the game.
In all of my years of coaching high school football I never had a player blow his ACL or MCL out on a cut block. I have lost more RBs with ACLs / WRs for just planting wrong on the grass. Never from a cut block.
High School level cut blocking is actually legal everywhere on the field in Texas and Mass... 2 states.
Again if you cut in the legal zone within the tackle box it is totally legal at all levels.. It is not illegal nor is it frowned upon. It is part of the game.
In all of my years of coaching high school football I never had a player blow his ACL or MCL out on a cut block. I have lost more RBs with ACLs / WRs for just planting wrong on the grass. Never from a cut block.
Once again GREAT GAME! On both sides. Both teams are very well coached. Could not be more impressed with what I saw from Sallies. For people to get on here an accuse either of these coaches of being unethical or cheap is really in poor taste. It really is small and petty.
One thing to questions scheme... One thing to question how you use personnel. But to accuse either of these coaches of being dirty and and unethical is really bad. No place for that.
Classic high school football game. Hopefully next 10 plus years we are able to watch more games like this between Sallies and Smyrna.
One thing to questions scheme... One thing to question how you use personnel. But to accuse either of these coaches of being dirty and and unethical is really bad. No place for that.
Classic high school football game. Hopefully next 10 plus years we are able to watch more games like this between Sallies and Smyrna.
The 1st half is pretty clean but the 2nd half you see Smyrna defensive players taking out Sallies blockers below the waist on numerous occasions most notably Sallies FB Jarome. It was called twice. Once it was Jarome being hit low and the 1st one was a pulling guard . It should have been called more than twice that is for sure.
Defensive blocking below the waist is the correct term (I believe) and not cut blocking.
Obviously the Smyrna players were coached to do this. It's a message board so questioning is fair game. It didn't determine the outcome of the game but I've lost a little respect for whoever is responsible .
Defensive blocking below the waist is the correct term (I believe) and not cut blocking.
Obviously the Smyrna players were coached to do this. It's a message board so questioning is fair game. It didn't determine the outcome of the game but I've lost a little respect for whoever is responsible .
Iza like a good spearing...
Palm heel strike or hammer fist to the head or shoulders and use the blocker/players momentum to force them into the ground and render ineffective....It takes good hands to be effective vs cut blocks....
Palm heel strike or hammer fist to the head or shoulders and use the blocker/players momentum to force them into the ground and render ineffective....It takes good hands to be effective vs cut blocks....
Smyrna won the game and someone really smart once told me it was in poor taste to bring up things like this...if they were "defensive blocking" then that's their business and their parents business and not yours.
PS- you're on DePreps at 1am? Loser....
One question. Would the likes of Reynolds, Burowski, Simpson, Apostolico, Kasonovitch, frown upon this or give it the 'heads up"?
I love how posters on here do not know the difference between a chop block and a cut block... And you are honestly suppose to take their post seriously? Making outlandish and ridiculous comments. Just sounds either like sour grapes or complete ignorance.
I bet they think a spill is something that happens in your kitchen...
I bet they think a spill is something that happens in your kitchen...
I used the wrong term. I was pretty worked up and posted quickly. It was not blocking obviously but it was illegal because of the risk to the offensive player's knees etc.
You know CoachJoe it's obvious you are friends with Judy. He is a trememedous offensive coach. It's very fortunate somebody did not suffer a serious injury because of his defensive game plan.
In my era we legally used our helmets all the time as you may have. It involved broken noses, concussions, people being knocked out too many times to count. Now that CTE is understood I support the rules designed to protect players from CTE. I used to post about it all the time and people who only talk tough made fun of me.
Diving at peoples knees as a staple of his defensive game plan is illegal because it is unreasonably dangerous. I suppose it proves how good Colby Reeder if that's what it took to stop him.
Scash.....you might be a young dude and still think you are invincible. You are not. You will realize that as the years go by. I'm 60 and some of my friends are losing their short term memories and worse. Sometimes I feel like hurting somebody. They are plenty of ways to get hurt playing football playing by the rules. Coaches should not teach high school kids techniques that are illegal because they are unreasonably dangerous.
It's only against the rules if you get caught so actually it was brilliant on Snyrna's part.
Bottom line is its about the safety of the kids. The rule was put in for safety reasons. The Smyrna faithful was screaming and yelling the week before about a missed late hit but looks the other way now. On several occasions you can see Salesianun players get up slowly because they were taken out below the waist. It's bush league.
Smyrna is the state champs and dsserves it 100 percent.
Bottom line is its about the safety of the kids. The rule was put in for safety reasons. The Smyrna faithful was screaming and yelling the week before about a missed late hit but looks the other way now. On several occasions you can see Salesianun players get up slowly because they were taken out below the waist. It's bush league.
Smyrna is the state champs and dsserves it 100 percent.
From a different thread....someone really smart once said that the refs were okay and the complaining about them was "a lot of bitching about nothing." Maybe this FanOfFootball needs to talk to the other FanOfFootball and they can come to a consensus on this matter.
Or we can say what's actually happening is this- when Smyrna made observations about the officiating the refs were good and Smyrna was bitching. When sallies fans start to bitch it is warranted and the players safety is at stake. To someone else's point, I didn't see you complain when a certain sallies player tried to twist the smyrn qb's head off while another player had him wrapped up low.
Some more food for thought- Just imagine, if Will Knight were on the 19 year old senior year plan....he would be in 8th grade right now and not 1st team all state/offensive player of the year as a sophomore....
This is absolutely not an excuse. I posted Smyrna deserved to win and they did. A few public school coaches sitting at ground level laid this on me and I stand by my concerns. I don't think many other Delaware coaches would've done this and I have explained my reasoning.
Every team Smyrna plays next year will alert the officials to look for it. Guaranteed. Watch the film guys. Film doesn't lie.
I stand by my comment. I thought the refs were fine. Getting booed off the field at halftime was the "bitching about nothing". That was pretty classy. Having the benefit of watching the game on film you can see the infractions a lot clearer. At full speed it's much different.
I didn't see the hit on Henderson where he got twisted and couldn't see it on film. I didn't like the 2 Sallies players slapping hands while Knight was hurt and the hit was questionable whether it was a spear or not. No targeting in high school. Last week I was pretty adamant about not liking the hit on Henderson against William Penn and I didn't really see it. Player safety is a big deal and should be handled as such. It's not an excuse. Certain rules are in place for player safety and it should be a big deal if they're not enforced.
I could care less how old Reeder or Knight are. If Knight wants to stay at Smyrna until he's 25 that's cool with me. I'd pay to watch him play for the next 5 or 6 years. Kid is a stud.
This is my last post on the subject and I stand by my comments 110 percent. Call me names, disagree, agree, I don't really care. I've watched the film and made my own conclusions. Like I said watch the film.
I stand by my comment. I thought the refs were fine. Getting booed off the field at halftime was the "bitching about nothing". That was pretty classy. Having the benefit of watching the game on film you can see the infractions a lot clearer. At full speed it's much different.
I didn't see the hit on Henderson where he got twisted and couldn't see it on film. I didn't like the 2 Sallies players slapping hands while Knight was hurt and the hit was questionable whether it was a spear or not. No targeting in high school. Last week I was pretty adamant about not liking the hit on Henderson against William Penn and I didn't really see it. Player safety is a big deal and should be handled as such. It's not an excuse. Certain rules are in place for player safety and it should be a big deal if they're not enforced.
I could care less how old Reeder or Knight are. If Knight wants to stay at Smyrna until he's 25 that's cool with me. I'd pay to watch him play for the next 5 or 6 years. Kid is a stud.
This is my last post on the subject and I stand by my comments 110 percent. Call me names, disagree, agree, I don't really care. I've watched the film and made my own conclusions. Like I said watch the film.
Having not been at the game, it is hard for me to judge exactly what was going on. Here is however the NFHS rule regarding below the waste blocking:
Blocking below the waist is an occurrence that is governed by very specific rules and definitions. It is vital that game officials understand when a block below the waist is legal as noted in the definition of the free-blocking zone. The free-blocking zone is defined as a rectangular area extending 4 yards to either side of the spot of the snap and 3 yards behind each line of scrimmage. The following must occur in order for a player to legally block an opponent below the waist:
1. Both players must be lined up in the free-blocking zone at the snap.
2. Both players must be on the line of scrimmage at the snap.
3. The block must occur in the free-blocking zone.
4. The ball must remain in the free-blocking zone.
It is important for game officials and coaches to remember these requirements in a variety of situations and apply them equally to both the offense and the defense. Any player may block below the waist as long as the above requirements are met.
So, if it was happening with the lineman, on the line it is legal. If the defensive lineman were charging past the offensive linemen and taking out the FB, that would be illegal.
Blocking below the waist is an occurrence that is governed by very specific rules and definitions. It is vital that game officials understand when a block below the waist is legal as noted in the definition of the free-blocking zone. The free-blocking zone is defined as a rectangular area extending 4 yards to either side of the spot of the snap and 3 yards behind each line of scrimmage. The following must occur in order for a player to legally block an opponent below the waist:
1. Both players must be lined up in the free-blocking zone at the snap.
2. Both players must be on the line of scrimmage at the snap.
3. The block must occur in the free-blocking zone.
4. The ball must remain in the free-blocking zone.
It is important for game officials and coaches to remember these requirements in a variety of situations and apply them equally to both the offense and the defense. Any player may block below the waist as long as the above requirements are met.
So, if it was happening with the lineman, on the line it is legal. If the defensive lineman were charging past the offensive linemen and taking out the FB, that would be illegal.
fan....that's basically my take on this whole thing......not condoning it... but I can say with full confidence that plays of this nature occur all the time. And for the football savvy folks on here go back and watch some film.....look at how many DB's make "tackles".....they come up field at a good clip of speed and go low or dive into a players legs to take the ball carrier down.
And I will say this again- while it may have slowed Sals RB down-it did not win the Eagles the title. There were many other aspects that contributed to the win.
Yes - Smyrna won the battle of the trenches. What happened on the last play of the game?
Smyrna's DL took it to Sallies OL. As big as they were (Sallies) they were not getting a surge or a push at the point of attack. That had nothing to do with cutting illegally. Obviously Smyrna's coaches went back from the first film and made the necessary adjustments to slow down the best player in the state.
Cutting the FB is not the reason why Sallies lost. There are a ton of reasons but NONE bigger then the fact Sallies could not sustain the punishing run game they had hoped. Anytime you come out with a TE and FB and I Formation.. You are basically telling EVERYONE in the stadium we are coming downhill now! Sallies lost up front.
Smyrna's DL took it to Sallies OL. As big as they were (Sallies) they were not getting a surge or a push at the point of attack. That had nothing to do with cutting illegally. Obviously Smyrna's coaches went back from the first film and made the necessary adjustments to slow down the best player in the state.
Cutting the FB is not the reason why Sallies lost. There are a ton of reasons but NONE bigger then the fact Sallies could not sustain the punishing run game they had hoped. Anytime you come out with a TE and FB and I Formation.. You are basically telling EVERYONE in the stadium we are coming downhill now! Sallies lost up front.
Not to mention their DB's got smoked on Henderson's pump action play that went for TD and special teams....how many times do your hear that old cliché.....1/3 of a game etc
