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Unofficial Points 5/7

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DETitans

Varsity
Jul 2, 2007
507
9
18
St Marks 46 Hodgson 29
CR 41 William Penn 28
Archmere 41 Newark 28
Sussex Tech 38 St Elizabeth 28
Smyrna 37 Cape Henlopen 27
Dover 36 St Georges 27
Delmar 36 Polytech 26
Caravel 36 Concord 26
Mt Pleasant 35 DMA 25
Tatnall 34 Middletown 25
Tower Hill 34 Appo 23
Sussex Central 34 Lake Forest 23
A I 33 Charter 20
Sanford 33
Conrad 33
Sallies 31

Lots of bonus points left to be had
Looks like AI will get Flight A bid
Hodgson/Mt Pleasant will play for Flight B bid on Thursday
Independent will be decided between Tatnall and Tower Hill Thursday and Friday, Tower Hill needs one win to secure conference title
Henlopen should go to Dover even with a loss to CR they should secure bid
Diamond State will go to Archmere with their win over Conrad back on April 1

Will post updated points after weekend games
 
Nice job. Don't you divide by games played to get the seeding? Delmar has played 16 games while other teams have only played 12.

I hope the Indy Conference does not end up with multiple teams. Not fair when they play each other 3 times in a season.
 
Yes Oldtimer that is what you do, I was just posting an early points total I will include index next week as well as possible points left to accumulate.

Independent will probably drop as they are not collecting bonus points based on strength of schedule as well as a lot of teams below them will start accumulating points before end of weekend
 
"Diamond State: When two teams play each other twice, only the second game is considered toward the conference standings. "

Diamond State conference game is this Thursday, Conrad at Archmere.
 
I kind of like trying to follow this crazy system at the end of the season.

Keep an eye on the AI @ Appo game on Saturday. If AI wins, they pretty much lock up the conference. If not, the conference could end with a 3 way tie.

Yaz, 16 teams make the tournament.
 
Crazy as it may sound Independent Conference will have 3 teams that are .500 or better therefore giving each other some bonus points. If Tower Hill sweeps Tatnall this week, they get to 12 wins, giving extra points to Sanford and Tatnall.
 
16 teams make the playoffs. 6 teams get in automatically for winning their respective conference. In the event of a tie for the conference, there are tie breaker scenerios in place to determine who gets the auto bid. Then there are 12 other spots for the teams with the highest playoff points index (these teams MUST be .500 or above though)

Pts are done accordingly...

3 pts for every win.
1 pt for playing a team (regardless of whether you beat them or not) that ends up with at least a .500 win/loss percentage
1 pt additional for playing a team with a .650 winning percentage

Once total points are determined, then you divide that by the number games played to get your points index.

Hope that helps....please correct me if i missed something...
 
I hate the one and done format for baseball and softball. Should bracket the teams and play double elimination.
 
Skip...its even possible for Tower Hill, Tatnall and Sanford ALL to get to 12 wins, giving each other a bunch of bonus pts.

Not only that, imagine a team like Sallies or Archmere who each played two of those teams. Assuming Sallies and Arch win their games against them coming up....they could get 10 total points from beating 2 teams from that conference. Assuming around 50-52 pts would be the playoff mendoza line....gettting 10 pts from two easy games is like playoff GOLD!!!
 
Originally posted by skipsternicole:

Crazy as it may sound Independent Conference will have 3 teams that are .500 or better therefore giving each other some bonus points. If Tower Hill sweeps Tatnall this week, they get to 12 wins, giving extra points to Sanford and Tatnall.
Click to expand...
It sounds crazy, because it is crazy. Tower Hill and Tatnall both made the tournament in 2007, 2008, and 2011. From what I can tell, the Independent conference has won exactly 1 game in the state tournament in the last 20 years. This system needs to be adjusted to correct this bias.
 
Independent Conference has had good talent in years past, and I don't think the auto-bid should be taken away.
speaking from previous years, schools in that conference have competed in some very close games. In the 2011 tournament, I recall a very good game lost because of poor timing in the pitching rotation.
If you pull away the auto-bid, how about a penalization idea for teams who load up the schedule, but lose against the good teams, year after year?
 
Sanford currently has 33. 9 wins plus 6 bonus PTs . Bonus PTs 1 each for the six times they played tatnall and tower hill who will be over.500
If they go 4-1 losing to sallies they get another 12 PTs. That's 45. Then they have 4 potential bonus PTs on the table. 2 for Sallies and 1 each from Tower and Tatnall if they get to 12 wins. That's 49 tops. I guess outside shot Rlca gets to 9 wins and throws Sanford 2 more.

I think Sanford needs to win out to have a slim shot.
 
Wish we could get the best 16 teams into the darned tourney. Sure Sanford getting in is great for Sanford, but it's a horrible thing for the tournament.
 
8yaz. My easy answer to getting the best teams in....invite more teams. Take it to 24 teams. Top 8 get a bye. Normally i don't like watering down the playoffs, but in the case of high school baseball i like it. Its basically a play-in game for teams that normally just miss the cut by a couple of bonus points, teams ranked 17-24. Instead or worrying about bonus points, these teams have one last chance to win their way in. #24 plays #9 and so on. But what i really like is a team that just missed at #17 spot, plays #16 to see who really deserves that spot. #18 play #15....those would be some interesting games.
 
From what I heard, the coaches assoc. asked for that format (expand to 24 teams using current points system). problem was play in day had to be same day as next round (i.e. if 9 played 24, the winner plays next game the same day). DIAA did not want to add days to tournament schedule. Not sure if this is right, just what I heard
 
Deball1. I hope your right about expansion but i hope they rethink that format. I don't really like a team winning and packing up to go play where? It doesn't seem practical as the next game could be on the other end of the state.

If the tourney was to begin on Tuesday, then this play in game could be Monday. That seems more practical and doesn't really expand playoff.
 
Originally posted by baseball_player_:
Independent Conference has had good talent in years past, and I don't think the auto-bid should be taken away.
speaking from previous years, schools in that conference have competed in some very close games. In the 2011 tournament, I recall a very good game lost because of poor timing in the pitching rotation.
If you pull away the auto-bid, how about a penalization idea for teams who load up the schedule, but lose against the good teams, year after year?
Click to expand...
I'm not dead set against the auto-bid, but I am against a system where the #2 teams in a very weak conference can make the tournament because of bonus points earned mostly against in-conference teams with inflated win/loss records. The current system doesn't accurately measure strength of schedule for those teams.
 
Originally posted by TouchThemAll:

Originally posted by baseball_player_:
Independent Conference has had good talent in years past, and I don't think the auto-bid should be taken away.
speaking from previous years, schools in that conference have competed in some very close games. In the 2011 tournament, I recall a very good game lost because of poor timing in the pitching rotation.
If you pull away the auto-bid, how about a penalization idea for teams who load up the schedule, but lose against the good teams, year after year?
Click to expand...
I'm not dead set against the auto-bid, but I am against a system where the #2 teams in a very weak conference can make the tournament because of bonus points earned mostly against in-conference teams with inflated win/loss records. The current system doesn't accurately measure strength of schedule for those teams.
Click to expand...
Points system is messed up. Teams should not be allowed to play each other more than twice a season either.
 
Conversely, it can penalize good teams. For instance, beating St.E is more difficult than beating TH or Sanford, yet teams will receive nothing from St.E unless the Vikes win out.
 
Auto bids are diamond, independent, flight A, flight B, Henlopen North and Henlopen South, right?
 
Originally posted by oldskool42:
My easy answer to getting the best teams in....invite more teams.
Click to expand...
Almost typed that earlier, but was pressed for time. That would be my answer too.
 
OS42.....No packing up. Top 8 get a bye (sorta) and two lower seeds play at higher seeds field. The winner plays a second game against higher seed after 1st game is complete (ex. 9 plays 24 at seed the field of the 8th seed. Winner plays 8 that day). Wish they could add a 5th day, but my understanding is any change for expansion will have to stay within the 4 day format they have now. It does stink since I think the 17, 18, and 19 teams should probably be in and it is good for the kids. Isn't that what it's about anyway??
 
thats what they want us to think... "it is good for the kids", but everyone knows high school coaches have more in mind than the kids.
Needless to say, everyone is overlooking one key fact that would prevent a larger play off or more games played in the play offs... the weather and the length of the season and trying to fit more games into a season that already puts the kids bodies at risk until the middle of April because of the 40 degree weather, and regardless of how good the player is, 40 degree weather increases chances of injury enormously. If we could get more games in early in the season and be able to start the play off earlier, a larger play off format would be a possibility, but games in cold weather at the start of the season, generally (yes, there are always exceptions) does not accurately depict the skill of the teams.
 
BPlayer: I see your point, but how many teams play on Saturdays on a regular basis. Additionally, it has been discussed here plenty of times....double headers. So wait until mid to late April or May and double up. Pitching would be an issue for some schools, but it would be easy to do for others. Let each teams schedule 18 games, just like now. You could add up to 7 more game (through double headers). If games are rained out, make up one game only. Original 18 scheduled games are points games for state tournament. This way, any school can play only 18 games if they want or up to 25. New Jersey gets in more than Delaware, so it has to be possible. But I will say it again.....have to get DIAA on board. They took back two games a few years ago because of "budget" concerns. Let's get those back for starters!
 
Definitely time to expand it. I'd still prefer double elim tournament, but short of that expanding to 24 and having those double headers for the first round would be the way to go. The alternative will be to split D-1 and D-2 and I don't think anyone wants that.

These kids will be playing double headers and up to 4-5 games a weekend coming up a few weeks, no reason that having 8 teams play one double header in the playoffs would hurt them.

Also think this would motivate the coaches to use more arms during the season. They would know that if they don't end up in the top 8 they won't be able to just trot out their #1 and #2 for the entire tournament. And also know they have a little more margin of error during the season so that if they end up at 13-5 instead of 14-4 that they would still probably make the tournament.
 
baseball_player...i see your point about keeping the kids safe. I think we can accomplish a lot of the ideas (more games, more teams in playoffs, longer training) and be as safe as possible. We have all mentioned it before. I say allow coaches to work with kids Jan 1st, jump to 24 games per season and have 24 teams in the playoffs.

For the playoffs, i want ONE extra day, thats it. A play in day for teams 9-24. The next day the remaining 16 start. its that simple.

As for the 24 game schedule, i also think its easy. Add Saturday games. You can do double headers every other week or just play 1 game every Saturday. The Satuday games maybe have no bus transportation if its a money issue. If its a money issue, than we need to work through it because whats wrong with a kid or parent driving to school on a saturday?? A lot of the teams practice or play on Saturday now and the kids have to get there, so whats the difference if they drive 15 minutes to another school.

As for the weather, its never that big of a deal. We haven't had serious weather issues for years. If you do, you just go with it and end the season at a certain point like they would do now on a certain date with teams possibly having differing amount of games. Encourage teams to schedule conference games earlier and make them the preference to make up first. I say schedule the games in march and if the weather isn't good, reschedule them. Its not that hard. If you play Tues, Thurs and Saturday....then reschedule on Mon, Wed, Fri or in the afternoon saturday. Set a rule that no game is played when the temperature is below a certain degree....pitchers can't throw more than a certain amount of pitches during certain temperatures. No playing in the rain, snow or cold temperatures. I don't think its that hard to work through.
 
Originally posted by oldskool42:

baseball_player...i see your point about keeping the kids safe. I think we can accomplish a lot of the ideas (more games, more teams in playoffs, longer training) and be as safe as possible. We have all mentioned it before. I say allow coaches to work with kids Jan 1st, jump to 24 games per season and have 24 teams in the playoffs.

For the playoffs, i want ONE extra day, thats it. A play in day for teams 9-24. The next day the remaining 16 start. its that simple.

As for the 24 game schedule, i also think its easy. Add Saturday games. You can do double headers every other week or just play 1 game every Saturday. The Satuday games maybe have no bus transportation if its a money issue. If its a money issue, than we need to work through it because whats wrong with a kid or parent driving to school on a saturday?? A lot of the teams practice or play on Saturday now and the kids have to get there, so whats the difference if they drive 15 minutes to another school.

As for the weather, its never that big of a deal. We haven't had serious weather issues for years. If you do, you just go with it and end the season at a certain point like they would do now on a certain date with teams possibly having differing amount of games. Encourage teams to schedule conference games earlier and make them the preference to make up first. I say schedule the games in march and if the weather isn't good, reschedule them. Its not that hard. If you play Tues, Thurs and Saturday....then reschedule on Mon, Wed, Fri or in the afternoon saturday. Set a rule that no game is played when the temperature is below a certain degree....pitchers can't throw more than a certain amount of pitches during certain temperatures. No playing in the rain, snow or cold temperatures. I don't think its that hard to work through.
Click to expand...
I wish this message board had a "Like" feature. I like.
 
Question for everyone:

So as of right now Sanford and Conrad are tied with an index of 2.571, and without having played each other the next tie-breaker would be record vs. common opponents. They have two common opponents, Tatnall and Wilmington Christian, which brings up this question.

Does the Sanford record of 4-0 against those two teams vs. Conrad record of 2-0, give Sanford the edge????
 
Tatnall won't get to 12 wins. At 9-6 with Tower Hill and AI as 2 of their remaining 3, 11-7 would be a good outcome. Going 0-3 versus Sanford is the killer for them.

Sanford realistically should go 13-5 at best, but 12-6 is a possibility. The question will be- do they put Denham on the mound versus Sallies to go for a win in that game, or do they save him for Wilmington Friends the next day to pick up the surer win? If they think they need 14-4 to get in the tournament, they probably have to have Denham start versus Sallies. He's a stud and might have the stuff to pull off the upset if the defense can hold it together behind him. If it looks like 13-5 will get Sanford in, then I'd save him for the Friday game. Will be an interesting decision.
 
If that was in reference to my question I was only asking as a general interpretation of the tie-breaker rules.

When using the common opponents tie-breaker there is a chance that one team will have played a team twice or three times, while another may have played them just once.
 
delpsufan,

I think there's a pretty good path for Sanford to get in at 13-5. No guarantees with most teams having 4-5 games to play, but ff they get there, they are likely ahead of Tatnall and Conrad by points in my count. Other teams can move in front of Sanford at that point, but I don't think it's a crazy scenario.
 
Originally posted by skipsternicole:

Question for everyone:

So as of right now Sanford and Conrad are tied with an index of 2.571, and without having played each other the next tie-breaker would be record vs. common opponents. They have two common opponents, Tatnall and Wilmington Christian, which brings up this question.

Does the Sanford record of 4-0 against those two teams vs. Conrad record of 2-0, give Sanford the edge????
Click to expand...
Skipsternicole, as of today, Sanford at 10-4 has 39 points (30 from wins and 9 bonus points). Conrad at 9-5 has 40 points (27 from wins and 13 bonus points). Looking at remaining games, Sanford has a possible 2 bonus points from Sallies. Conrad has a possible 3 or 4 bonus points from Woodbridge, Middletown, and AI. Even if Sanford finishes with a 13-5 record and Conrad finishes with a 12-6 record, Sanford would be behind in points 50 versus 52 or 53.
 
Originally posted by TheDETop20:

Skipsternicole, as of today, Sanford at 10-4 has 39 points (30 from wins and 9 bonus points). Conrad at 9-5 has 40 points (27 from wins and 13 bonus points). Looking at remaining games, Sanford has a possible 2 bonus points from Sallies. Conrad has a possible 3 or 4 bonus points from Woodbridge, Middletown, and AI. Even if Sanford finishes with a 13-5 record and Conrad finishes with a 12-6 record, Sanford would be behind in points 50 versus 52 or 53.
Click to expand...
Conrad at 12-6 is no gimme, though. That assumes a loss to AI and wins over Middletown and Woodbridge. Lose either of those and it's 50 for Sanford and 49-50 for Conrad. Not an impossible scenario. Maybe not better than 50% but probably more than 20%.
 
Has one of the Indy teams in consideration for the playoffs played and beaten a team with a winning record not in the Indy conference? Of what I could see the answer is no.

Only one team should get in.
 
The flight b and the henlopen south and the independent champions will be any of the 13-16 seeds. They will not have enough total pts to make it at 13-5.
 
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