Some drama in the tournament meetings today for fieldhockey

[BackinBlack86]

Maybe a president set for football should it happen..

Here's the set up.. Field Hockey had 12 games to schedule and a minimum of 9 to qualify for states.. St Marks after 8 games 5-3 and had their last 4 games cancelled due to covid. Something to do with Archmere... I will let Mr Lang via twitter lay out how it went down..

Interesting stuff

and then there are more tweets from upset folks.. not going to post but if interest you can go read them

 

[BackinBlack86]

St. Mark's HS Varsity Field Hockey 2020/2021

#​	Date​	Day​	Time	Opponent	H/A	Location	Comments	W/L	Score
1​	10/21/20​	Wed​	3:45pm​	MOT Charter HS	H​	St. Marks HS	Two tickets per family - no visiting spectators View Results	W​	8-2​
2​	10/22/20​	Thu​	3:45pm​	St. Elizabeth HS	H​	St. Marks HS	Two tickets per family - no visiting spectators View Results	W​	5-0​
3​	10/24/20​	Sat​	12:00pm​	AI duPont HS	A​	AI duPont HS	NO SPECTATORS: Livestream Link - https://tpn.one/d53ds View Results	W​	11-0​
4​	10/26/20​	Mon​	3:45pm​	Ursuline Academy	A​	Serviam Field	NO SPECTATORS ALLOWED Live stream: youtube.com/UAwilmington View Results	L​	1-3​
5​	11/2/20​	Mon​	3:15pm​	Padua Academy	H​	St. Marks HS	Lifetouch Pictures - Two tickets per family - no visiting spectators View Results	L​	0-6​
6​	11/5/20​	Thu​	3:45pm​	Archmere Academy	A​	Archmere Academy	Two spectators per family- No visiting spectators View Results	L​	0-6​
7​	11/7/20​	Sat​	12:00pm​	Middletown HS	H​	St. Marks HS	Two tickets per family - no visiting spectators View Results	W​	1-0​
8​	11/9/20​	Mon​	3:15pm​	Conrad School	H​	St. Marks HS	Two tickets per family - no visiting spectators View Results	W​	5-0​
​	11/16/20​	Mon​	3:15pm​	Newark Charter School	H​	St. Marks HS	(Postponed) No contest	​	​
​	11/18/20​	Wed​	3:15pm​	Red Lion CA	H​	St. Marks HS	(Postponed) No contest	​	​
​	11/21/20​	Sat​	12:00pm​	Ursuline Academy	H​	St. Marks HS	(Cancelled) No contest	​	​
​	11/24/20​	Tue​	3:00pm​	Padua Academy	A​	Hockessin Montessori School	(Cancelled) No contest	​

 

[BackinBlack86]

I don't understand the Archmere thing because Archmere played all 12 of theirs?.. hmmm

 

[BackinBlack86]

Polk stepping in and the discussion is back open

 

[BackinBlack86]

 

[BackinBlack86]

 

[First_state_gridiron]

so if the football committee drops the minimum number of games played - how does that impact the playoff scenarios?

 

[HSftballlaxFan]

I honestly feel like, the right decision is expand the seasons ONE more week in all sports so missed games can be played. Football teams can get one more in, soccer, field Hockey, and Volleyball can all get at least 2 in. It would clear up all this drama. The extra week would only be allowed for games “cancelled” or “postponed” you can’t go schedule another game just for the hell of it.
And it’s not like you have a venue like UD scheduled to host playoff games so you don’t have a legit end of season date.

what would it hurt?

 

[Shine bright like a diamond]

I know Archmere and St. Marks aligned to screw Caravel over in football. I think it had to do with Caravel poaching kids.
So not sure what happened. I do not think Matt Smith is very well liked so who knows

 

[BackinBlack86]

 

[BackinBlack86]

so who now is out? lol

These were the original 1st round games.. this should be interesting

 

[BackinBlack86]

so if the football committee drops the minimum number of games played - how does that impact the playoff scenarios?

It won't unless Woodbridge or Delmar have their games cancelled this week.

 

[BackinBlack86]

I know Archmere and St. Marks aligned to screw Caravel over in football. I think it had to do with Caravel poaching kids.
So not sure what happened. I do not think Matt Smith is very well liked so who knows

Not just football. St Marks refuses to schedule Caravel in any sport, that's how butthurt they are. 😭

 

[Yunforce]

I know Archmere and St. Marks aligned to screw Caravel over in football. I think it had to do with Caravel poaching kids.
So not sure what happened. I do not think Matt Smith is very well liked so who knows

not sure how either school can screw over CA in football. Archmere is in a conference which dictates itself and St. Marks play a similar schedule as Archmere. Diamond State Conference and some down south schools (+ traditional Sals in a normal year)

 

[truestatements1]

I know Archmere and St. Marks aligned to screw Caravel over in football. I think it had to do with Caravel poaching kids.
So not sure what happened. I do not think Matt Smith is very well liked so who knows

screw how?

 

[Shine bright like a diamond]

They just won’t schedule Caravel anymore. I guess screw probably not the best word

 

[Uncle Bumfuzzled]

not sure how either school can screw over CA in football. Archmere is in a conference which dictates itself and St. Marks play a similar schedule as Archmere. Diamond State Conference and some down south schools (+ traditional Sals in a normal year)

There is no reason for Sals to play Sparty at this time. If Sals plays any D2 FB school it should be Howard for the City Title... plus Howard could be D1 in 2-4years...

 

[BackinBlack86]

not sure how either school can screw over CA in football. Archmere is in a conference which dictates itself and St. Marks play a similar schedule as Archmere. Diamond State Conference and some down south schools (+ traditional Sals in a normal year)

Caravel has been playing Archmere every year since 2009 and St Marks every year since they became D2. Starting in 2019 St Marks refused to schedule Caravel in any sport over a couple of kids who left St Marks and transferred to Caravel ( both kids were able to get hardship waivers to play for CA so DIAA deemed the transfers legal). Look up all the sports schedules from 2019 and 2020. Prior to that St Marks and Caravel played each other in just about every sport annually. St Marks AD told Caravel they won't schedule them in any sport anymore.

Archmere broke their 10 year run of scheduling CA in football in 2019. The claim was they wanted to schedule easier to try and make the playoffs as the football coach was feeling the heat missing the playoffs for a few years. I can't confirm Archmere joined forces with St Marks to cut CA from their schedule but many think that they did. Archmere still schedules CA in other sports.

Now that being said and the growth of the DSC in football I can see it being more difficult for Archmere to find a open date to play CA going forward. I also ,like others ,think St Marks may join the DSC as soon as next year and St Elizabeth joined this year. So yeah that would make 8 football playing schools in DSC leaving 3 OOC games available to schedule. but prior to this year DSC teams had 5 open games so Archmere could have scheduled CA in 2019

 

[delawarenole]

There is no reason for Sals to play Sparty at this time. If Sals plays any D2 FB school it should be Howard for the City Title... plus Howard could be D1 in 2-4years...

Howard was 2nd best team in state last year and top 3 this year. SHould be D1

 

[Shine bright like a diamond]

Howard will do anything it can to stay away from a D1 schedule.

Caravel has been playing Archmere every year since 2009 and St Marks every year since they became D2. Starting in 2019 St Marks refused to schedule Caravel in any sport over a couple of kids who left St Marks and transferred to Caravel ( both kids were able to get hardship waivers to play for CA so DIAA deemed the transfers legal). Look up all the sports schedules from 2019 and 2020. Prior to that St Marks and Caravel played each other in just about every sport annually. St Marks AD told Caravel they won't schedule them in any sport anymore.

Archmere broke their 10 year run of scheduling CA in football in 2019. The official claim was they wanted to schedule easier to try and make the playoffs as the football coach was feeling the heat missing the playoffs for a few years. I can't confirm Archmere joined forces with St Marks to cut CA from their schedule but many think that they did. Archmere still schedules CA in other sports.

Now that being said and the growth of the DSC in football I can see it being more difficult for Archmere to find a open date to play CA going forward. I also ,like others ,think St Marks may join the DSC as soon as next year and St Elizabeth joined this year. So yeah that would make 8 football playing schools in DSC leaving 3 OOC games available to schedule. but prior to this year DSC teams had 5 open games so Archmere could have scheduled CA in 2019

Thanks Bib. I didn’t have all of the info straight but that is exactly what I had heard.

 

[Huskerman7]

so who now is out? lol

These were the original 1st round games.. this should be interesting

View embedded media

Dickinson was bumped out

 

[BackinBlack86]

Howard will do anything it can to stay away from a D1 schedule.

Thanks Bib. I didn’t have all of the info straight but that is exactly what I had heard.

The good news is if the 3 division set up and restructuring the conferences to include everyone goes through then most of this drama on scheduling will go away also with the proposed set up and if Howard wins it this year they will likely start in the top division.

 

[Uncle Bumfuzzled]

Shine said..."Howard will do anything it can to stay away from a D1 schedule"

As you know it is math driven.

(I see Ritter having a great coaching horizon. He certainly has done a wonderful job at Howard. It's like Smyrna's Judy. He may be satisfied as a DE HS FB Coach but DelState is the challenge that will fulfill his destiny...)

 

[HSftballlaxFan]

Idk about that. If Howard wins it all, I still see them in D2 next year with the proposed realignment. You have to remember 50%....FIFTY PERCENT, is student population. That keeps them in D2 itself, now if the winning of the last 3 years, and the last 5 years says they belong in D1 so be it.

at that point it should be left up to Howard AD on what they wanna do. You’re going to be leaving a Division with the likes Archmere, Friends, Concord, Brandywine and Newark....to go into a Division with Middletown, Sallies, and Hodgson.

if I was Howard I’m not quite sure I’d want that bump just yet until you know you have the numbers that those schools have. They can sub in and out and for the most part don’t miss a beat. With the realignment, Howard’s schedule is already tougher than it is now, playing Dickinson and McKean every year. So I’d stay in D2 for now.

 

[BackinBlack86]

Idk about that. If Howard wins it all, I still see them in D2 next year with the proposed realignment. You have to remember 50%....FIFTY PERCENT, is student population. That keeps them in D2 itself, now if the winning of the last 3 years, and the last 5 years says they belong in D1 so be it.

at that point it should be left up to Howard AD on what they wanna do. You’re going to be leaving a Division with the likes Archmere, Friends, Concord, Brandywine and Newark....to go into a Division with Middletown, Sallies, and Hodgson.

if I was Howard I’m not quite sure I’d want that bump just yet until you know you have the numbers that those schools have. They can sub in and out and for the most part don’t miss a beat. With the realignment, Howard’s schedule is already tougher than it is now, playing Dickinson and McKean every year. So I’d stay in D2 for now.

Howard enrollment is 835 so they aren't that far off. Also that example posted was Greene just supposing how many teams in each division. that part wasn't really addressed in the proposals as of yet as far as I know..

He had it

3A-12
2A-16
1A-16

I personally think it will be ( we have 18 D1 now)

3A-14
2A-16
1A-14



These were based on 2019 numbers , if it goes through it will be 2020 numbers and result factored in. I would think Cape would move(as they should) and either Concord/Mt P/or possibly Howard in the North.. RLCA and Laurel would have to go to 2A

Bibs adjustment. Howard would stay for now..

3A North
Appoquinimink
Middletown
Salesianum
Hodgson
William Penn
St. Georges
Concord

3A South
Caesar Rodney
Dover
Milford
Smyrna
Sussex Central
Sussex Tech
Cape Henlopen


2A North
A.I. duPont
Archmere
Brandywine
Friends
Howard
Mount Pleasant
Tower Hill
Red Lion

2A South
Caravel
DMA
Delmar
Lake Forest
Polytech
St. Mark's
Woodbridge
Laurel

1A North
Wilmington Charter
Conrad
Delcastle
Dickinson
McKean
St. Elizabeth
Tatnall

1A South
Newark
Christiana
Glasgow
Indian River
Seaford
St. Andrew's
FSMA

 

[Shine bright like a diamond]

Ritter is never going to the top tier. He would find another way to manipulate the divisions. Don’t think for one second that this new format based on location does not help Howard. By coming up with this idea, Howard does not have to play DMA, Caravel, and St. Marks. I don’t think that was by accident. Looking at the two divisions in proposed D2, the North clearly is an easier one.
over the years, Howard has scheduled Delcastle, Poly, seaford, Moyer, and D1’s that will most likely get to 7 wins. He is the public school Tower Hill.
Again, I say get rid of the conferences and take the manipulation out of the process. 3 divisions on a rotating scheduling basis.

 

[BackinBlack86]

Ritter is never going to the top tier. He would find another way to manipulate the divisions. Don’t think for one second that this new format based on location does not help Howard. By coming up with this idea, Howard does not have to play DMA, Caravel, and St. Marks. I don’t think that was by accident. Looking at the two divisions in proposed D2, the North clearly is an easier one.
over the years, Howard has scheduled Delcastle, Poly, seaford, Moyer, and D1’s that will most likely get to 7 wins. He is the public school Tower Hill.
Again, I say get rid of the conferences and take the manipulation out of the process. 3 divisions on a rotating scheduling basis.

Just so you know, this is not the proposal , this was a mock up done based off the math from 2019 using the proposal criteria and I adjusted some of it.. I nor the media member knows how they will separate the divisions. Obviously geography will play into it as will making sure one side isn't more overloaded with the better programs than the other.. just my take.. It was just done using the formula to rank the programs how they sperate or group them I am sure is yet to be debated

 

[Uncle Bumfuzzled]

Interesting conversation despite my involvement. Howard just had a major construction investment and it has the capacity to add students. That is not to say they should but as we continue to look the need for public high school capacity in Wilmington, the growth of Howard could be a part of that solution. Other avenues would include building a new Wilmington High School or reopening PS du Pont as a high school. Great campus and location.

I think Coach Ritter would have no problem adjusting to D1. Would he do it as Howard's coach or moving over to Salesianum? (Somebody is bound to bite on this sooner or later.)

 

[Uncle Bumfuzzled]

Ritter is never going to the top tier. He would find another way to manipulate the divisions. Don’t think for one second that this new format based on location does not help Howard. By coming up with this idea, Howard does not have to play DMA, Caravel, and St. Marks. I don’t think that was by accident. Looking at the two divisions in proposed D2, the North clearly is an easier one.
over the years, Howard has scheduled Delcastle, Poly, seaford, Moyer, and D1’s that will most likely get to 7 wins. He is the public school Tower Hill.
Again, I say get rid of the conferences and take the manipulation out of the process. 3 divisions on a rotating scheduling basis.

Let's be fair to Ritt. He had Flight B that required games and had a superintendent that wanted the school district schools to play each other. He was a little boxed in. That is not to say that coaches like to duck tough opponents once in a while. I think it was old coach of Iowa - Hayden Fry - who said: "we got Nebraska right where we want them.....off our schedule..."

 

[HSftballlaxFan]

I know it’s just a mock, but 2019 numbers is what? 1180? 1200? If it goes to the new format, I don’t see how the enrollment can drop from to 800? That’s nearly 300-400 students. I don’t see the drop that much. Maybe 1000?

I do think Milford is getting screwed and should be down in 2A, and Concord should probably be down in 2A.

if Howard wants to move up, I’d take Milford out, put Howard in the north 1A, and move either Appo, Middletown, or St. George’s (being how they are the 3 schools under the canal) to the South 1A. To keep the Divisions even.

Under your proposition, having 14 in 1A instead of 12, then I can see the logistics of moving Howard up. But to keep the Divisions at even numbers, who from 2A south gets bumped up to 1A south? Woodbridge? (Not that I’d be against that)

 

[BackinBlack86]

I know it’s just a mock, but 2019 numbers is what? 1180? 1200? If it goes to the new format, I don’t see how the enrollment can drop from to 800? That’s nearly 300-400 students. I don’t see the drop that much. Maybe 1000?

I do think Milford is getting screwed and should be down in 2A, and Concord should probably be down in 2A.

if Howard wants to move up, I’d take Milford out, put Howard in the north 1A, and move either Appo, Middletown, or St. George’s (being how they are the 3 schools under the canal) to the South 1A. To keep the Divisions even.

Under your proposition, having 14 in 1A instead of 12, then I can see the logistics of moving Howard up. But to keep the Divisions at even numbers, who from 2A south gets bumped up to 1A south? Woodbridge? (Not that I’d be against that)

I already did the bumps from 12 to 14.. put Cape and Concord up.. Howard would stay down for now but knocking on the door.. Currently the line between d1 and d2 enrollment is 1045. I just think it needs to be 14 teams in 3A. 12-16-16 is silly too me.. remember at enrollment is only 50% performance is 50%.. There will be teams with lower enrollment in 3A than teams in 2A

There won't be an enrollment line.. For out of state they will have to come up with a set number to determine what class.. something like +1100 3A 1099-500 2A and under 500 1A.. You won't be able to use the performance factor for OOS games..

 

[Shine bright like a diamond]

If these conferences go into effect, I do not see any reason why a school would need to go OOS. Would it be a bad thing if we play all in state? If a team like a Sallies wants to go OOS, then they should be able to leave DIAA. I don’t know, maybe I am just too much of a homer.

 

[BackinBlack86]

If these conferences go into effect, I do not see any reason why a school would need to go OOS. Would it be a bad thing if we play all in state? If a team like a Sallies wants to go OOS, then they should be able to leave DIAA. I don’t know, maybe I am just too much of a homer.

I don't see a problem if teams want to schedule an OOS game or two.. What is comes down to is each team will need to fill 3 to 4 games OOC. Most will play across the line to the other division, some will try and keep their rivalry games, some may look at a OOS opportunity.. The kids love the OOS games for the most part.

 

[Shine bright like a diamond]

Definitely some good reasons to keep them. I didn’t realize there were so many OOS games.

 

[HSftballlaxFan]

I’ve always been a fan of the out of state games....the ones I’ve been apart of or have traveled too myself....

Boyertown, Downingtown East and West, Dematha, Paramus Catholic, Upper Darby, IMG, and St. Frances. Have always enjoyed the trip and making a day of it....or in the IMG case, a weeks vacation.

 

[HSftballlaxFan]

I already did the bumps from 12 to 14.. put Cape and Concord up.. Howard would stay down for now but knocking on the door.. Currently the line between d1 and d2 enrollment is 1045. I just think it needs to be 14 teams in 3A. 12-16-16 is silly too me.. remember at enrollment is only 50% performance is 50%.. There will be teams with lower enrollment in 3A than teams in 2A

There won't be an enrollment line.. For out of state they will have to come up with a set number to determine what class.. something like +1100 3A 1099-500 2A and under 500 1A.. You won't be able to use the performance factor for OOS games..

I get what you’re saying, I just think a team like Concord, Milford, would do better in the 2A than in the “projected mock”....and that’s where I’d pull Howard and say Woodbridge up to 1A. I also can get behind 1A being 14 teams and not 12.

 

[Shine bright like a diamond]

I can see Howard competing this year. Last year, they were probably one of the top 6 teams in the state. Looking at their roster and influx of kids, they will be pretty good for the next couple of years. I just do not know if they can compete every year in the top tier. I know Hodgson made the bump and looked good for a couple but they just are not very good this year. This may be who they are year in and year out. They probably could make playoffs in D2 with this team in a regular year. St. G's made the bump but they are just an average D1 team. I havent seen Woodbridge enough but can they consistently play and beat the top teams. There is no easy answer.
I blame school choice.

 

[BackinBlack86]

I can see Howard competing this year. Last year, they were probably one of the top 6 teams in the state. Looking at their roster and influx of kids, they will be pretty good for the next couple of years. I just do not know if they can compete every year in the top tier. I know Hodgson made the bump and looked good for a couple but they just are not very good this year. This may be who they are year in and year out. They probably could make playoffs in D2 with this team in a regular year. St. G's made the bump but they are just an average D1 team. I havent seen Woodbridge enough but can they consistently play and beat the top teams. There is no easy answer.
I blame school choice.

IMO if you can be a average team (competitive) in D1/3A then that is where you belong. From there you would have your up years where you can make a run and down years where you may miss the playoffs.. That's normal for HS football.. The idea is whether you can be competitive or not. Winning chips are for those special teams any given year. If it works out where you can't be competitive and you drop to the bottom of the conference then you can move down.

 

[BackinBlack86]

I get what you’re saying, I just think a team like Concord, Milford, would do better in the 2A than in the “projected mock”....and that’s where I’d pull Howard and say Woodbridge up to 1A. I also can get behind 1A being 14 teams and not 12.

Yeah Milford could go 2A and WB up to start. Concord has shown they can at least compete in D1. True the last few since the Roberts boys left there hasn't been the attention hell they made the playoffs last year. This year they are losing the conference games they won last year but the games were competitive.. They only lost to MT 18-21, Appo 14-21, St G 38-21.. Last year they beat Appo 21-7, St G 35-0 and WP 21-14.. I think Concord is fine in 3A.

As for Howard or WB they both can compete in 3A at the moment, maybe not win the chip but could be playoff teams. If it happens Howard can no longer attract the ballers in or WB kids start going back to Tech and either of them fall off where they can't compete ( ei. winning any games or consistently getting blown out) in 3A then the system will allow for them to move.. again JMHO

 

[Uncle Bumfuzzled]

A couple of random incoherent comments:

Next year's 3 tiered systems should start to address a lot of problems. It should cut down on the number of running clocks and hopefully small school teams will be able to get through their schedules. The last item has been troublesome.

As all schools are in a "conference" it should eliminate perceived equity issues of the automatic bid. (This has not really been a big problem but could have blown up in this crazy Covid year but didn't.)

I liked the out of state games that had developed some tradition but may have ended up not really lasting. The Cape periodically ferried over to play Cape May. The Sals had Baltimore Poly for like 30 consecutive years. Didn't Caravel and Elkton have a solid rivalry?

That is all the incoherence for now.