Confused
- Thread starter Mike from milford
- Start date
The coaches usually make the selections. They see all the players, so they know who can do what.
Guessing your son didn't make it ?
Coaches nominate players then discuss their players the other coaches vote majority wins seems pretty simple I'm pretty sure people claim politics are involved but that excuse is getting old !
Well yes he did make henlopen second team all conference. My confusion exists because he is 5-0 overall and 3-0 in the conference with a 1.05 era but another pitcher from our own team garnered first team honors with a 3-2 overall record 3-1 in the conference with a 4 plus era. So I was just wondering how players are selected.
Just my opinion but could have had something to do with the matchups
I suspect you're right his wins are over Tower Hill, St. Elizabeth, Sussex Tech, Ceaser Rodney, and Lake Forest with those last 3 being Henlopen teams. Not really great competition but the era is over the entire season. Just really disappointed for him I thought he deserved more. With all that said I couldn't be more proud and he has one game left vs. St. Marks hopefully tomorrow weather permitting.
Well if it makes you feel any better I don't think my son should have been 1st team this year over one of his teammates
I'm not sure of your exact situation . Coaches possibly used other stats. Strike outs per game hits per game maybe other kid is a senior and your son is underclassmen and the coaches feel both kids seasons were close with getting first team and gave it to the senior . These are just suggestions why . Not that they make us feel any better but could be why !
The problem with the whole process all the coaches do NOT see all the players. So players do get screwed. Then it also matters what school they go to because certain people don't like certain schools. They say thats not true but it true for sure. Just look at past years.....
Not saying this is your son, but I know sometimes coaches do not talk up their own players enough. Obviously coaches have their favorites, and again not saying your son isn't one of them, but coaches do not always nominate their players then fight for them on what they really deserve. Plus a lot of times if a player has been 1st team all conference for two years straight, they almost always give it to him again just off of name alone.
For the most part I think coaches get it right. But not always. Prime example is Nolan Henderson got voted 2nd team All-Conference Quarterback when it was obvious he was 1st team. Politics? Angry coaches? Whatever the case it was ridiculous. He did get 1st team All-State however. Not sure how that happened. I believe that in baseball you have to be 1st team All-Conference to even be considered for All-State.
Don't sell yourself short on the wins he has. Tower Hill has gone on to win 15 games this year. St E is sitting at 11-6 and will be in the tournament. Sussex Tech is 10-7, but was 7-0 when he squared off with them. CR 7-10. Not like he was throwing against cupcakes.
So if you get screwed for All-Conference you get screwed for All-State. It is definitely political and depend on what teams you play. If you play suck ass teams it pads your stats & all the coaches don't see you in whatever conference you may play. Double edge sword ....
Also keep in mind Mike....overall stats and previous years stats are not used in selection, only this current season. most have said it correctly (from what I know)...The coaches select a position and any coach can write up the name of any kid he would like to have considered. the coaches speak about the kids then everyone votes. Highest 3 get 1st team. A player can only be first team as a pitcher and position, not 2 positions. This is henlopen, so others may do it differently. Prior to the meeting, all coaches submit stats for their players. This is where (in my opinion) there are issues as some coaches can be very giving of whether it is a hit or not and whether it was an error or not.
It's a very subjective process. Believe me there are cases of collusion among coaches on who to vote for. Kids can have the best stats at a position across the board and get voted second team or honorable mention.
Probably a better way might be no names just player x or player y and let stats speak for themselves.
doubt that Mike since we have all heard of kids hitting 600. Come on man, if a kid did that...everyone would know who they are. It is subjective and sometimes probably truly hard. But I do agree I wish there was a better way
Mike,
Watched your son pitch yesterday he did very well and clearly plays with a lot of heart. I'd say this, there is no perfect system and the subjective eye test and balancing of the value of stats should be part of a fair system. I don't think a blind stats alone would be any more a fair assessment than what we have now. I've been on both sides of the award process. I've had players close to me not getting what we think the season warranted and then flip side being awarded more than maybe deserved based upon stat measures of performance.
We are all baseball fans so everything begins and ends with stats and that seems to be the basis of your "confusion" as your son had a really good year and his stats demonstrated that achievement. Getting aside from the fact that their is a subjective aspect to the keeping of stats and that coaches vary in how they keep the book, even if we assume uniformity of interpretation not all 1.00 ERAs, .500 Ba are created equal. Some teams because of their profile have faced nothing but team's #1 starters all year and others see the "other guys." No offense to the Lake Forest, Woodbridge and St Thomas More of this season but reality is the chance a team is going to burn an ace against those teams when it's rare teams have more than 1, is unrealistic. Does that mean a player on a below .500 team doesn't warrant recognition ? Of course not but it does seem only fair those stats achieved in less pressure packed games be somewhat discounted. Further, example as to pitchers, I coach travel ball and I've had "Saturday pitchers" with tremendous stats, better than "Sunday pitchers" who have the eyes and attention of slews of college coaches. Does that mean my Saturday guys don't play a vital role in success? Could we win without them ? The answers are of course huge props go out to these players. They are usually the heart and soul of a team.
Your son's wins were quality and the level of opponent was not in the "Saturday" status but it doesn't seem he was viewed as Milford's #1 arm. So I wouldn't knock his stats for level of performance, those are quality wins PERIOD but not being viewed as Milford's "the guy" rightly or wrongly, I would bet played some role in the voting.
Having watched your son, here is my candid assessment. First and foremost love the way he plays. He is type of player a successful team needs and I can tell he's type kid love to coach. He is always going to help a team win ball games. That being said he isn't going to win a baseball skills beauty contest. He isn't a big presence on the mound, probably sits 72-76 with his fastball and makes his living with a long loopy generally up in the zone mid 60s curveball. But with the make up of Milford's team he is a perfect fit. You play in a generally bigger than Avg HS home field. So lot of room out there and you are fortunate to have a substanitaly above Avg HS defensive outfield led by a 6.7 runner, VA commit centerfielder who can go get it with anyone. Your son's up in the zone HS slow work generates a lot of fly balls. He works quick, has really good command and stays out of trouble by not giving free passes.
His stats for yesterday I am sure were solid. Like the above eval he kept Milford in the game with a chance to win and remained steady. I gather what may have hurt him (and I am not saying I agree with this view) is the stuff, the presentation ... we love the big guys, the flame throwers with tons of Ks, the HR hitting intimidating bats. Those are the guys that leave an impression on us as people when we leave the field and coaches are no different. Sometimes the little guys, the accumulators get a raw deal. But the world is full of those kids that use it as a motivation and drive ... the "chip". Guys like Pedroia, Altuve, Strohman ... even Maddox ... teams like Coastal Carolina last year all were built on that chip.
I know your son's a senior and I hope he keeps playing. He should. Years from now I doubt anyone will remember what award he did or didn't win. His opponents and teammates will remember the competitor ...
I'd say you've done a good job dad. We've got kids winning awards I would walk away from rather than want to engage in convo with let alone find a place in any dugout I'd want to be in. But for your son, Milford isn't in the playoffs and 18 kids and coaches don't have a chance to make memories.
Not sure this post does anything to solve your confusion ... just one man's opinion since you asked. I hope no offense was taken in anything written as none was intended.
Generally speaking I think coaches motives are pure in this voting, they are trying to do what's right and they get it right much more than they get it wrong.
Good luck in the playoffs.
Watched your son pitch yesterday he did very well and clearly plays with a lot of heart. I'd say this, there is no perfect system and the subjective eye test and balancing of the value of stats should be part of a fair system. I don't think a blind stats alone would be any more a fair assessment than what we have now. I've been on both sides of the award process. I've had players close to me not getting what we think the season warranted and then flip side being awarded more than maybe deserved based upon stat measures of performance.
We are all baseball fans so everything begins and ends with stats and that seems to be the basis of your "confusion" as your son had a really good year and his stats demonstrated that achievement. Getting aside from the fact that their is a subjective aspect to the keeping of stats and that coaches vary in how they keep the book, even if we assume uniformity of interpretation not all 1.00 ERAs, .500 Ba are created equal. Some teams because of their profile have faced nothing but team's #1 starters all year and others see the "other guys." No offense to the Lake Forest, Woodbridge and St Thomas More of this season but reality is the chance a team is going to burn an ace against those teams when it's rare teams have more than 1, is unrealistic. Does that mean a player on a below .500 team doesn't warrant recognition ? Of course not but it does seem only fair those stats achieved in less pressure packed games be somewhat discounted. Further, example as to pitchers, I coach travel ball and I've had "Saturday pitchers" with tremendous stats, better than "Sunday pitchers" who have the eyes and attention of slews of college coaches. Does that mean my Saturday guys don't play a vital role in success? Could we win without them ? The answers are of course huge props go out to these players. They are usually the heart and soul of a team.
Your son's wins were quality and the level of opponent was not in the "Saturday" status but it doesn't seem he was viewed as Milford's #1 arm. So I wouldn't knock his stats for level of performance, those are quality wins PERIOD but not being viewed as Milford's "the guy" rightly or wrongly, I would bet played some role in the voting.
Having watched your son, here is my candid assessment. First and foremost love the way he plays. He is type of player a successful team needs and I can tell he's type kid love to coach. He is always going to help a team win ball games. That being said he isn't going to win a baseball skills beauty contest. He isn't a big presence on the mound, probably sits 72-76 with his fastball and makes his living with a long loopy generally up in the zone mid 60s curveball. But with the make up of Milford's team he is a perfect fit. You play in a generally bigger than Avg HS home field. So lot of room out there and you are fortunate to have a substanitaly above Avg HS defensive outfield led by a 6.7 runner, VA commit centerfielder who can go get it with anyone. Your son's up in the zone HS slow work generates a lot of fly balls. He works quick, has really good command and stays out of trouble by not giving free passes.
His stats for yesterday I am sure were solid. Like the above eval he kept Milford in the game with a chance to win and remained steady. I gather what may have hurt him (and I am not saying I agree with this view) is the stuff, the presentation ... we love the big guys, the flame throwers with tons of Ks, the HR hitting intimidating bats. Those are the guys that leave an impression on us as people when we leave the field and coaches are no different. Sometimes the little guys, the accumulators get a raw deal. But the world is full of those kids that use it as a motivation and drive ... the "chip". Guys like Pedroia, Altuve, Strohman ... even Maddox ... teams like Coastal Carolina last year all were built on that chip.
I know your son's a senior and I hope he keeps playing. He should. Years from now I doubt anyone will remember what award he did or didn't win. His opponents and teammates will remember the competitor ...
I'd say you've done a good job dad. We've got kids winning awards I would walk away from rather than want to engage in convo with let alone find a place in any dugout I'd want to be in. But for your son, Milford isn't in the playoffs and 18 kids and coaches don't have a chance to make memories.
Not sure this post does anything to solve your confusion ... just one man's opinion since you asked. I hope no offense was taken in anything written as none was intended.
Generally speaking I think coaches motives are pure in this voting, they are trying to do what's right and they get it right much more than they get it wrong.
Good luck in the playoffs.
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I have total respect for your evaluation of my son's pitching and over the last couple of days my (confusion) is going away. I understand big guys with big arms and big bats garner all the attention but as a coach myself with 25 years experience know the value of heart and guts big or small. Really all I wondered was if his coach fought for him like he said he did and for my own self just wanted to become familiar with the voting system. Thank you again for your evaluation of him and yesterday put a real hurting on his era, he was devastated. Kidding.
Can't wait for All-State Selection......... Because there again I know the right kids will not be selected by the information that is submitted. They will go by names and the school they are from. See it so many time already. TBC.....
