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Possible Conference Changes for basketball

Justabasketballfan

Justabasketballfan

Getting reps on JV
Mar 16, 2015
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Went to the coaches meeting at the blue gold game and got
some startling news of what's to come in Delaware for basketball for the most
part. The word is that DIAA will make new conference changes in this states.
There will be big split based on school size, and private & Public. There
will three divisions: first will be Public big school by the number of
enrollment, Private schools, and small public schools Such as charters and academy's.
There will be three separate state
champions each year. There reason is mostly on the girls side of basketball
some of the more down state teams feel that if you're not part of the big five
in high school girls you will not have a chance to win a state championship.
They feel every year when they go into the tournament if they have to face one
of those five teams they will get the beating of their life. So they want to separate
the these schools to give an equal opportunity for all those other schools to
compete for a state championship. And from what I'm hearing this is going to
happen. This is supposed to start in 2018. When they did the vote to talk about
this it was 45% against it and 55% for it among the coaches that was at the
meeting. What are you guys feelings?
 
So what about softball where the down state girls teams dominate most years? Boys wrestling is the same too. Sounds like a bunch of coaches whining instead of working harder.

State is way too small for this.
 
You guys are absolutely right. Now the funny thing is the Ceaser rodney girls coach is the one kind of pushing this along. And this is going to be all sport I think. Not sure if it is just going to be for basketball. Now my only problem with this is that some kids will suffer for this. let me explain:
If I'm at one of those schools not winning a lot of games and not of basketball players come to my school and I'm great player at say Dickinson such as one girl is there. If you break this up I'm subjected to play the likes of Newark or christiana (nothing against those schools.) I will drop 30 points a game but it will be against lesser talent. And no college coaches are going to go see me play versus a newark. The Laural coach made a claim that I don't have basketball players at my school. i have to use football players and two real basketball players to hold a team. IF we make it to the bob the town of Laural would shut down and our whole town will come to the game. I told him but what college would come. At least if you have a game against caravel, ursuline, and/or any other school if colleges are there for them you may get seen. The only thing they care about was the fact that the kids looked at the brackets and seen who there opponents were and said we have no chance of winning. It was the strangest thing. but i think they was getting to that we don't have basketball players and we cant get basketball players to our school so because we can't but we still want a shot to get to the bob, and not work for it.

This post was edited on 3/24 8:40 AM by Justabasketballfan
 
All this talk about college and getting noticed but please tell me the percentage of kids going to college to play basketball. Also, what college wants to come see a potential athlete beat up on an opponent who isn't even formidable. For many of these kids this is the highlight of their athletic careers.
Currently Delaware is the only state that only offers one division for a state tournament in basketball. Please give me an explanation on why are system works and the other 49 states have it wrong. The system being spoken about comes from the smallest state in the United States, Rhode Island. DIAA is clearly doing their due diligence to examine and develop a system that meets the drastic differential in levels of basketball in this state.
 
Your right there getting this rhode island. so tell me how many kids are getting noticed from rhode island with there system? And there are alot kids are leaving because there isn't enough strength of scheduling to be seen. We have two kids i know personal who are higher powered schools not just because of education but they play a schedule that colleges can see them. Separating the schools for such a small state that already has parody issues is not going to help increase it. Its going to water it down. Those lower level schools who play in the quote- unquote smaller schools will never get the talent there looking for. You cant tell me having three state champions will satisfy this issue. kids and parents aren't dumb. parents will just send the kids to higher power programs, and now you will have a whole league of players not going to those schools if they can help it.. coaches need to put in the work in getting kids. and I'm not saying recruiting but more so saying hey i'm the coach here this is my program. have camps or clinics, and or training for your schools. the second thing is...... get this- better coaches!! thats the real pink elephant in the room.. don't hire coaches that just want a check. Some coaches have to the work for there program! The old Moyer Academy coach got two kids looks for college playing in a tournament at Haverford school for boys that they shouldn't have been in. but two kids got looks not for D1, but for a college for free. Im not saying all have to be D1. but separating this will only make this worse. Moyer Doesn't even have the Education background like some of these other schools and there closing but the work was put in. What does that say about the other schools?
 
Bad idea! All of the sudden private schools start winning and now they are isolated, if i read the breakdown correctly. Every team will make playoffs and the championship games will not be special. Then I guess the NJ will tell us who the best team is...
 
yes. some coaches are tired of seeing the private schools continue winning. so they want to take them out and let others have a chance to get to the bob for more so on the girls side of basketball. more so the public schools and some small schools that don't have the big numbers of students in there schools as well.
 
Hopefully this doesn't expand to all sports, and at the very least if this happens there is some form of tournament of champions. Might be academic in girls basketball b/c the private school champ will win most year, but it would be a shame if a public school program developed into a threat and then never got their shot.
 
Most of the coaches voting for this change and peddling their influence to DIAA probably will not be around in 3 years...
 
That's what I believe as well. mount pleasant high school for both boys and girls looked good, AI, and Concord as well. Why shouldn't they get a chance. To me yo have sent us back to the stone age. There other things in this system that should be changed. I don't think doing this will help at all.
 
I agree with fan! The DIAA should spend more time and effort helping the student athletes and not serving the schools. The DIAA transfer policy is geared toward protecting the schools and not designed to help the individual athlete get to he best school for them! Its no wonder alot of talent leaves the state.
 
I sat there dumb founded as I listened to the coach explained to me that he was tired of seeing Ursuline keep winning and that all the other private schools like sanford, st elizabeth, caravel, and padua was always in the hunt. and there was no room for the other teams to get a crack at the bob. so why not exclude those teams..
 
Rhode Island has 126 high schools. 82 public and 44 private. So 2 public and 1 private divisions in Rhode Island makes sense. Delaware had 49 teams participate in boys basketball this year. Trying to compare apples and oranges.
 
Just to clarify, was this debated about just for Girls basketball?

Also, if it's about a shot at the Bob, is it a guarantee that UD would host that many more games if you have 3 separate tournaments.
 
Can't do for girls and not boys. If this does go down it will leave a huge void in the forum for Sals haters!
 
Other small states.

Vermont 149 high schools 83 public 66 private
Maine 260 schools 168 public 92 private
New Hampshire 190 schools 107 public 83 private


The state of Delaware ranks 44th in total enrollment but 50th in total amount of schools including DC which is 51st.
 
I'll wager that a lot of schools in those states are very small. Small schools used to be the rule in Delaware (Lewes High, Lord Baltimore, Felton, Rehobeth high, Gunning Bedford, Delaware City, Louis L. Redding, etc. ) until regional consolidation.
 
Just go D-1,D-2..D-2 state champion and runner up goes D-1 following yr and bottom 2 D-1 go D-2

This post was edited on 3/23 6:08 PM by 1superfan
 
This is about the the worst thing that you could do..the rich will get richer and the rest will be left with the picked overs...I am an assistant at a hs in a nearby state with open enrollment and the elite teams get almost all of the top talent and that will keep happening in de...the players want exposure and the top teams get that for every kid who plays for and against them...look at the stigma on this board for d2 football.....I want to compete against the best and to borrow from rick flair...to be the best you have to beat the best...in Delaware the smaller pubs will have some up years and down with good coaching there will be more good than bad...how can being the best of the worst feel good to any player,parent or fan????....also Moyer girls vs pencader girls d3 championship 2018 would have never been played at the bob and neither of any of those potential second tier games in the future
 
Did they not see Sussex Central girls upset Sanford...Nobody is paying to go to the Bob to watch a JV girls game!!!?
 
Its about time that DE is thinking about changing.The big privates will still get big time players because they have no bounderies to recruit. Every state championship in any division is special. In South Jersey there are small schools like Paulsboro who just won a group 1 state title. The town and the kids are proud to bring back that banner for their school and to wear that state championship jacket. Downstate is also made up of small towns that have their community schools. You think they wouldn't be proud of a small school championship. My alma mater Camden High School who has a storied basketball past just played in the group 2 state championship. Many fans traveled to try to get that championship. Hometown pride, let the small schools and towns have it.
 
They do have it, its called conference champion

The state champion should be the BEST in the state.... Point blank period!
 
In other sports, when was the last time a school not named Cape Henlopen won the championship in field hockey?
 
I do apologize it was ceaser rodney's coach. sorry about that. Some of the statements are absolutely true. We will be sent back to the stone age. And those smaller schools that think there not getting players now. will never get the player they won't. Even if there in there feeder program. because if it is cape or laurel that I could go to based on size and possible college opportunity I will go to cape. (and I don't know if that is possible just using the two schools as an example based on size). now DIAA believes that they can have all three championships on the same day at the Bob. And they figure that the revenue for all those games will really good. So i believe that this truly a money thing as well. But i remind all who is reading this. that it is supposed to happen. and i do applaud some of the coaches a little bit for at least trying to get ahead of this and making it less painful buy wanting to set up there own guidelines for this process. But those are the ones that are really for this change to happen based on the discrepancy of the number of championships being won by the private schools.. And yes this will change for the boys side as well. Not sure if this will affect all sports.... In the interim the coaches are fighting to go back to 22 games for regular season like it used to be instead of the 20 games we play now. i guess that would be a better consolation prize if DIAA goes for it..

This post was edited on 3/24 11:05 AM by Justabasketballfan
 
It's amazing that first, it seems to be the consensus that college opportunities are created through high school athletics. A strong portion of college coaches and athletes would immediately admit that their recruiting developed on the AAU circuit. With that being said most high school athletes get strong college looks in when they play in an appealing out of state schedule. Now the way I look at it the most appealing thing to athletes is the opportunity to win. This new system creates more of an opportunity for kids to win. For that reason, kids are not leaving an opportunity to win a state championship at a D2 or D3 school to transfer to a D1 school.
Guys open your eyes. High school athletics have more value to the overall person than winning. A very small portion of our state and the overall student body across the country receive money to play college basketball. This system isn't being put in place for that. It is creating more of an opportunity to students to win which inevitably motivates kids to work harder because they are that much closer to winning.
 
Originally posted by memets11:

It's amazing that first, it seems to be the consensus that college opportunities are created through high school athletics. A strong portion of college coaches and athletes would immediately admit that their recruiting developed on the AAU circuit. With that being said most high school athletes get strong college looks in when they play in an appealing out of state schedule. Now the way I look at it the most appealing thing to athletes is the opportunity to win. This new system creates more of an opportunity for kids to win. For that reason, kids are not leaving an opportunity to win a state championship at a D2 or D3 school to transfer to a D1 school.
Guys open your eyes. High school athletics have more value to the overall person than winning. A very small portion of our state and the overall student body across the country receive money to play college basketball. This system isn't being put in place for that. It is creating more of an opportunity to students to win which inevitably motivates kids to work harder because they are that much closer to winning.
Click to expand...
Do you really think that a chance to win a watered down state championship will make kids work harder? Same kids are going to leave the D2 program if they are good enough for D1 or a elite private program. Not going to change anything. D2 schools like Howard and Hodgson will now win the D2 public school title every year. Downstate teams will not win much more. If a D2 team is good enough to beat a Howard or Hodgson they will probably have a chance to win and most likely be playing at the Bob without any changes.

The biggest problem is the coaching or lack of it at some schools. I can not tell you how many times I have watched games that the more gifted team has lost because of a lack of any coaching. They might as well been playing on a Parks N Rec team. I think some coaches should look for another job.
 
1. This is not coming from DIAA, it's an idea that has been floated by coaches. Some other sports have gone to two divisions, but that has been the initiative of coaches/ADs, not from DIAA.
2. Why can't the public schools in girl's basketball win? They do it in boy's basketball. There were two publics in the boy's final four this year and both games were very competitive. The final was a private vs. public. Howard won the boy's championship two years ago and St. Georges was in the final last year. Why is it that a big school like Caesar Rodney can't establish itself as a girl's basketball power? I doubt that the CR school district is losing girls to Ursuline. Lastly, Cape, Delmar, Polytech have figured out a way to dominate in girl's field hockey and lacrosse, so obviously it can be done.
3. The coaches voted formally on this proposal last fall and rejected it. The "voting" that took place on Saturday was just a recommendation from the coach's association. It was not a formal vote because it was not announced as an agenda item beforehand.
4. If we split basketball into three divisions does that mean that someone would be the "state champion" of a 12 or 15 team division? What a joke. Let's go out and buy a jacket for that! It could read, State Champion, Sort Of.
 
Well if we are being totally honest i don't like the other sport having division 1 and 2 stated champions. The years Newark was winning in football you couldn't tell me they was the best football team in the state but you wouldn't know it because there was another state saying they was state champions as well. I know it feels so good to put the banner in the gym stated what we accomplished this year. But i tell you it feels so much better to know that i'm truly the state of Delaware champion. No disrespect to those who won. but how can you say your truly a champion when there is two of them in the state. State champion means your the best in the state. the coaching staff, kids, parents, and schools supporters all worked hard to see the team have success for that school year. Why tarnish it with half of a championship, or if they do the basketball this way 1/3 of a championship... And honestly the kids will lose out and those small schools will loose out. You will see such a drastic change in attendance in some of these schools games and an influx of kids trying to get into the private and more established bigger schools...And yes the main issue is coaching and there lack of wanting to work to improve there program. that's the white elephant in the room
 
**Here is just one interpretation of why some of these schools fail and what parents are looking for in a school and what could be done to fix this issue. This was part of the conversation in public vs private- this directly related.


1st- the educational system is more structured in
a way that the majority of the kids that go to these school have aspiration of
going to college. So these schools prepare them for that. And the majority of
the parents are paying for these kids to school. And its gives the impression
that the parents are lot more in tuned to their kid's education. It's not
saying that the public school parent aren't. but when you're paying that bill you're
really going to make sure your child is attending all there classes and more
focused to get your money's worth

2nd-Well this one is hard. The public school
system just isn't what it used to be as far behaviors in the classrooms and how
they handled them. And how that can affect a kids learning when the teacher is
trying to teach and you have kids throwing things, yelling, or whatever could
happen in the classroom where the teacher cannot teach the lesson plan. And what
some people don't know that public schools have a higher percentage of kids
that need one on one assistance in order to learn. All school have them please
believe. But it is higher in public schools.

3rd- and this is the biggest one for me. A lot of
the private schools don't have a lot of conference games or any at all. So
there requirement for DIAA is to play at least 10 games of instate games and
then they can play the rest out of state. In the case of caravel they don't
have any conference games. Now those schools can travel and play possibly more exposure
games than say Newark who would have to satisfy their conference first before
scheduling those out of state games. Sorry I would send my kid to one of those
knowing that based on their scheduling each year a college could get glimpse of
me playing.



So if I was a parent that couldn't afford a private school,
then I would look at tech school, or honestly the best public school that is
not a tech school is A.I, and Concord High school as far as education and sports. So gone are the days
where the public schools will be able to compete in these sports and not just
basketball based on some these issues. Some schools are excluded at times like
the Newark, William Penn, and maybe a few downstate teams based on the sport or the times they will have put together some talent that wont transfer out. This year looks like mount pleasant seems to be the public school for now. But the parity is off where there could be a good talent across the board and all the schools
have a decent chance of competing for a chip in any sport. In my day you have
to figure out what school was losing people in order to go there and get time
in the sport you wanted to play. Now it is so many you can choose from to play
for.
 
I really hope the DIAA isn't considering this.

While the private schools do have a stated advantage over the public schools (this isn't just tied to sports either), it makes no sense to create division championships for a state with less than 50 competing high schools. The best should be the best of the 24 teams who made the tournament, simple as that.

If you want the private schools to win, learn how to beat them, simple as that. Sussex Central's girls really handled Sanford and Poly beat Sanford before coming up short to Sallies on the boys side and we see the grief downstate gets on this board and elsewhere.

The problem is as public education has gone, so has the sports. With budget cuts and restrictions, how good can public school teams really be? It's become a numbers game and a money chase to a degree. Kinda sad, but that's the way it is. Still, if public school coaches put in the extra effort (and some do), this private school beef wouldn't exist.
 
While I dont think 3 divisions are necessary in DE.. I think everyone will have to come to terms that every sport will go to D1 and D2 eventually... as for basketball its really just what to do with Sanford.. I doubt the DIAA would approve anything other than a split based on enrollment.. Anything else is too subjective and more than an association like DIAA would want to police.. For that matter yes Sanford would dominate at D2 in hoops but it would be short lived as they would not be able to continue to attract the talent they do if they were in D2..JMHO






This post was edited on 3/25 9:27 AM by ravensrooster2
 
Can someone please tell me how many Kids were from Delaware on Sals championship team and Ursline Championship team?
 
Originally posted by SWINGANDMISS:
Can someone please tell me how many Kids were from Delaware on Sals championship team and Ursline Championship team?
Click to expand...
Unless someone works in the admissions of those schools and has access and takes the time to figure it out I doubt anyone here can answer that question.. As well as how is it relevant and why would it matter? Any private school near a state border will have kids from those states that are with in a reasonable drive to get them there.. Caravel and Red Lion have been drawing kids from Cecil County Md as the public High Schools in CC are terrible and there really are no private school options in CC.. Caravel and Red Lion are the closest.. St Marks draws from Cecil County as well... Sals and Ursuline will draw from PA and NJ due to proximity of the school.. if they live closer to Wilmington than Philly... Its no different here than any other state where a private is near a border they all draw accross state lines... If you draw a 40 mile circle arround a private school most likely they will draw kids in that circle regardless of state lines..







This post was edited on 3/25 10:05 AM by ravensrooster2
 
Originally posted by SWINGANDMISS:
It's matters because I can any public school compete with that to a certain degree?
Click to expand...
Sure they can.. they draw from the same circles... just because a kid lives accross the border in PA or MD doesnt make them somehow a better player than the kids on the DE side of the line.. Thats silly.. Quite honestly the rec programs in Cecil County arent good and they don't produce near as good of football players or basketball players as ones in DE like MOT or some of the AAU programs here in DE for hoops.. Its not like the privates here are scouting and recruiting the best players from Cecil Co.. They are kids and parenst who choose to send their kids to a private school within driving distance.. Sure some of them hapen to be good athletes but thats the same for every school... point being it doesnt matter what side of a state line the kid lives in.. kids are kids.. I will grant you private schools with solid athletic programs will draw kids in for those sports they are reputable in and yes that can be an advantage.. but is that any different than Cape with Lacrosse and Field Hockey? or Smyrna with Wrestling? If you build a great program the kids will come its that simple









This post was edited on 3/25 10:37 AM by ravensrooster2
 
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