If a kid is good it will show in the end. Stop all the crying about where everyone is seeded. The panel did a pretty good job, can't make everybody happy!!
Who has the most in the semis Saturday
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All conference results dictate is where they get seeded in regards to their conference opponents. Henlopen 3 or 4 can and was seeded over Blue hen and Independent 1's. They just can not be seeded over anyone that placed higher in their own conference. Record means very little either. The state committee looks at head to head and common opponents that are all entered into track wrestling.
A few of talked about if a kid just has a bad conference tournament and loses to a kid once but has beaten the same kid 2-3 times during the year, how it really isn't fair to seed higher based on one result BUT it is also a qualifier Tournament. The system isn't perfect but better than the old one!
Congrats to your boys @youjustme!
A few of talked about if a kid just has a bad conference tournament and loses to a kid once but has beaten the same kid 2-3 times during the year, how it really isn't fair to seed higher based on one result BUT it is also a qualifier Tournament. The system isn't perfect but better than the old one!
Congrats to your boys @youjustme!
Looking over things typically conference champions get the 1 and 2 seeds..but its not absolute,, there were 2 weight classes where the Henlopen got 1 and 2.. point being even if the Hens dont get 1 they get 2 or 3 which still sets up finals for the two best ,... which is the point of seeding
There are no trophies or awards for seeds so why the drama? If seeds are bragging rights for you then you have issues..... Who cares who was 1 seed if they didn't win?
The point of seeding is to have the championship match in the semis or finals not the 1st or 2nd rounds
There are no trophies or awards for seeds so why the drama? If seeds are bragging rights for you then you have issues..... Who cares who was 1 seed if they didn't win?
The point of seeding is to have the championship match in the semis or finals not the 1st or 2nd rounds
Which to me is the only real flaw. I get that it's a qualifier tournament, but in sort of the same fashion, the last place ACC team could somehow win the conference tourney and get in the NCAA field. It isn't going to be seeded higher than UNC. For one, it's illogical. And two, it would hamstring the way everyone else was seeded. If the consensus is the kid is the best in the state based on his overall body of work, he should be the No. 1 seed. If the consensus says No. 2, he should be there. And so on, all the way down the line.
I don't doubt they do. But -- and I'm not going to look it up, so I could be wrong -- how much of this did they have to go by when they seeded the kids No. 1 at 152 and 285? I can't imagine it was much of anything. Thing is, if that's the case, I am perfectly fine with the committee seeding each No. 1 (ignoring the fact that they had to win their conference tournaments or wouldn't have been). I just may not agree with the choices, or choice at least. One of those two I actually agree with, not that I am an expert or anything. But anyway, not everyone is going to agree, and that's OK. They are instances where the committee said "these guys, despite injury or whatever else are who we think is the top wrestler in this class even with smaller bodies of work."
What are you talking about? One, there is no drama. Two, who said anything at all about bragging rights? Pointing out what I think of as a system flaw isn't "drama." People can and should voice their constructive criticisms.
Anyway, let me say that I think overall the wrestling committee does fine work. I think wrestling postseasons are run better than any other sport in the state. That said, nothing is perfect and I just saw something I perceive as an imperfection and mentioned it is all.
CJ you took my post a little to personal;... were both just voicing opinions not bashing in a presidential debate lol.. I was speaking in general not to you personally
Probably. My fault. It's just I have been saying the same thing to wrestling people all week and pretty much get the same response.
Sort of unrelated, I shouldn't have came in and said the whole four No. 1 seeds, 10 champions thing. Should have laid out my criticism. But in my defense, it was late after a long day and I wasn't thinking clearly.
NP bro been there done that ... its all good we all have the same mission to make DE sports the best it can be... baby steps lol
At 152 the was a common opponent in Hisey from Malvern prep who Lamey beat 5-0 at the beast and the next week Hisey beat Bautista at Battle at the Beach 5-4.
At 285 Dooley had a win over Sommervile, who in turn had a win over carter. Pierce had good wins but also a few losses all year so he just wasn't the #1 seed. That weight was actually seeded pretty well in my opinion.
I actually don't have a problem not immediately putting a kid down just because of a conference tournament loss but for now it seems to be a decent system that isn't hurting anyone. A kid like Rosser who was the top ranked kid all year but suffered a loss at conferences still got to the state finals. There is no award for #1 seed accept a slightly easier road to finals if you consider any road easy! The elite ones come through whatever way they need to and we get the true top 6 at each weight. This state tournament was probably the best I've seen in many years and I'm sure that has a lot to do with the seeding that's in place now.
At 285 Dooley had a win over Sommervile, who in turn had a win over carter. Pierce had good wins but also a few losses all year so he just wasn't the #1 seed. That weight was actually seeded pretty well in my opinion.
I actually don't have a problem not immediately putting a kid down just because of a conference tournament loss but for now it seems to be a decent system that isn't hurting anyone. A kid like Rosser who was the top ranked kid all year but suffered a loss at conferences still got to the state finals. There is no award for #1 seed accept a slightly easier road to finals if you consider any road easy! The elite ones come through whatever way they need to and we get the true top 6 at each weight. This state tournament was probably the best I've seen in many years and I'm sure that has a lot to do with the seeding that's in place now.
I think 285 was fine as well. That's because there were so many kids really close to each other and all of them had wins over other kids in the weight class throughout the year.
And I have no problem with Lamey being No. 1 either. Kid is obviously very talented. I just think that Bautista's overall body of work was good enough to earn the top seed, despite one common opponent from two very early season tournaments. But my point is, if the committee feels Lamey is the best wrestler at 152, it should put him there regardless. Justify it that way, not by going back to one common opponent in two early season tournaments. Yes you have to use criteria to form a judgement, but it should take in several factors, not just something so miniscule.
Again, just so nobody gets mad at me, I am clearly no expert on wrestling. I am just looking at this with outsider's logic.
Regarding your last comment, that's the thing that bugs me... (So I don't offend anyone, I use the term 'bug' loosely. I'm not in the least bit emotionally upset about it.)... In any case, you are 100 percent correct. There is no trophy for being a top seed, nor is any road easy. It can be argued that some top seeds faced more difficult roads. And from my perspective, the reason that happens to be is because of the way the conference tournament results factor into the decision. Not only does it make things more difficult for the four- or five-seed kid that just had an off weekend, it does it to the No. 1 seed as well. Back to the "bugging me" thing. The whole idea of the elite shining through no matter what is a sticking point for me. I wholeheartedly agree that the best six that weekend are going to place no matter what. Like I said though, if that is the main response to my plight, again I ask why even bother to seed at all? If it's to present the best opportunity to see the perceived best wrestlers get to the championship round, then it shouldn't be hamstrung by anything, including how kids placed one weekend before. In my opinion... I could very well be wrong. I just haven't heard a case made against me that would even make me consider changing my mind.
The point of seeding isn't to just get the best wrestler, as if you just put them in randomly most times the best guy will always come out on top. The point of seeding is to get the right top 6 wrestlers. Randomly all top 6 could end up on the same side of the bracket and half not place at all. I can just say that while I'm no expert, I've been to probably 30 Delaware state tournaments either as a wrestler or coach and I've seen the difference the past two years that they have been seeding it this way.
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So it's a thanks for participating thing, in essence. And I don't mean that to take away from a top six performance. That's something every kid should be proud about. But I'd argue that the idea shouldn't just be to get the top six, it should be to get them in the best position to place accordingly -- one through six. This is just nitpicking on my part though. It's Sunday, football is over, baseball is a month away, the 6ers are too awful to watch even if I'm not a fan of theirs and I have some free time on my hands. We'll just agree to disagree.
What we can both definitely agree on is that the new system is better than the old. I suppose my overall point though is that if it could be tweaked and made even better, it should be. Maybe it can't. Maybe this is the best possible system. Lord knows there isn't any perfect way to do things. To paraphrase the old saying though, even though you can never be perfect, you should never stop striving for perfection.
Anyway, thanks, Concord, for indulging me in conversation.
its a shame when someone like Taylor can't make it into States because Henlopen conference is so strong at certain weight classes
I don't understand the conversation here. I thought the seeding was fair all the way through. If you lose in your Conference qualifier I think you have the expectation that it's going to affect your seeding. It's the most recent reflection on your wrestling. What's more important a win in November or what you did last week? The were plenty of conference champs seeded 6, 7 or wherever? The committee has to balance body of work and sorry but the Conference qualifier is part of that. Kids in PA could be State qualifiers if they could just get out of their District qualifier. Happens often. Henlopen gets 6 spots. If you can't come out of the qualifier in the top 6 then you missed your opportunity.
No doubt, Taylor belonged in the tourney, but you can't lose that match in the quarters of Henlopen. Here's another point, lets not pretend that Henlopen swept 152, they took 3 out of 6 places, so the comment that Henlopen was so strong at that weight, doesn't hold water. Taylor probably wins that match 8 out of 10 times, but on that day the Cape kid laid it all out there and took it.
Please believe me when I say, I don't wish to offend anyone, these kids are all among the greatest in character, drive and initiative. They are a pleasure to be around and I respect the majority of them more than most adults I know, but our seeding system is good. It works well. Wrestling is an unforgiving sport that doesn't allow mistakes. If you lose a match you should win, you seldom get a chance to redeem yourself until next year.
That said, it was a great tournament. The genuine excitement in a kids eyes when he wins it is enough to turn an old fart like me to jello. No other sport does that to me.
No doubt, Taylor belonged in the tourney, but you can't lose that match in the quarters of Henlopen. Here's another point, lets not pretend that Henlopen swept 152, they took 3 out of 6 places, so the comment that Henlopen was so strong at that weight, doesn't hold water. Taylor probably wins that match 8 out of 10 times, but on that day the Cape kid laid it all out there and took it.
Please believe me when I say, I don't wish to offend anyone, these kids are all among the greatest in character, drive and initiative. They are a pleasure to be around and I respect the majority of them more than most adults I know, but our seeding system is good. It works well. Wrestling is an unforgiving sport that doesn't allow mistakes. If you lose a match you should win, you seldom get a chance to redeem yourself until next year.
That said, it was a great tournament. The genuine excitement in a kids eyes when he wins it is enough to turn an old fart like me to jello. No other sport does that to me.
I could not agree more @WornDown
What happens other sports you lose in the playoffs? If Smyrna was 11-0in football and lose in the state semis guess what, they are out. Yes they played well enough all year to deserve to be in the championship but they lost in the that would have qualified them for the final game. You know going in that you need to wrestle wel to qualify for states. Rumor was a few of those upsets e saw at conferences was due to to much weight cutting. Not sure about Taylor but it did hurt a couple other kids
What happens other sports you lose in the playoffs? If Smyrna was 11-0in football and lose in the state semis guess what, they are out. Yes they played well enough all year to deserve to be in the championship but they lost in the that would have qualified them for the final game. You know going in that you need to wrestle wel to qualify for states. Rumor was a few of those upsets e saw at conferences was due to to much weight cutting. Not sure about Taylor but it did hurt a couple other kids
yap, yap, yap. You really must have some free time on your hands. Why don't you do something important, like project the field of 64? Maybe we should have a DEPreps bracket challenge this year.
Well said @WornDown. The kids that were at states deserved to be there. They took nothing for granted, and got in. If they feel that strongly about their conference being too tuff, move. Lord knows we've had enough of that. That kid at 170, didn't need top seeding!
