Are these four teams in the final 4 because they can recruit and many of the public can't? While at the boys games today I hear that Sanford girls have 2 new recruits. One is a current player at AI & I couldn't make out where the other is from. I was also told Sanford boys won out on the 6'9" 8th grader from PA that currently plays basketball at St. Edmonds Academy because they are also offering his sister a free education at Sanford to. Didn't DIAA run David Sills out of Delaware for doing the same thing at Red Lion? Is it just because the 2 coaches at Sanford are being more discrete. This is outta control.
Recruitment of high school basketball players
- Thread starter Filmore00
- Start date
I will tell you this. If you have a good player definitely watch who they talk to. Some of these coaches will go right up and tell them to come to there school.
I would say it more like why don't public schools retain their players. How many players that go to public in middle school then all the sudden they go to a top private school in high school? Look at the rosters and see were the girls went to middle school and that tells all you need to know about recruiting.
Also it very subtle but very easy to see. Go to an AAU practice of the one of the better clubs 7th and 8th grade teams and see what HS coach pops in to check out the players. It's funny I've seen 3 of the four coaches in the semis at either a tournament or stop by practice. But never seen a public school coach just come to a practice or tournament.( I mean not Sills or Ocean City) Boo Williams, Comets Invitational etc.
Also it very subtle but very easy to see. Go to an AAU practice of the one of the better clubs 7th and 8th grade teams and see what HS coach pops in to check out the players. It's funny I've seen 3 of the four coaches in the semis at either a tournament or stop by practice. But never seen a public school coach just come to a practice or tournament.( I mean not Sills or Ocean City) Boo Williams, Comets Invitational etc.
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These programs in the final four have tradition that goes back to before "Recruiting" was even a thing. Numbers don't lie - Ursuline's been winning championships since the tournament began, St. E and Sanford have won a couple and Caravel's always been in the mix.
Also, public high school girls basketball, while getting better, has never been that good because they don't have a feeder such as the CYO leagues. There have been 8 public school champions in the 45 years of this tournament - it's never been ripe for them to compete on a championship level because the demands and rules are different at private schools.
Also, public high school girls basketball, while getting better, has never been that good because they don't have a feeder such as the CYO leagues. There have been 8 public school champions in the 45 years of this tournament - it's never been ripe for them to compete on a championship level because the demands and rules are different at private schools.
Who on here can say what players were recruited and by what Head coach, I can say parents talk to each other about their child's school and a majority of assistant coaches are connected to parents all around Delaware. I know for a fact 2 coaches that tried to recruit 1 downstate private and 1 public the rest has been parents... "I'm not saying there is no recruiting going on by private school coaches".
Sanford does not offer anyone a free education. Period. Anyone saying that does not know what they are talking about.
After a student passes the entrance exam (for HS) and applies, then there is a financial aid process that can result in reduced tuition. But every family pays tuition, and the amount varies by need.
I remember a few years ago there was a story that something like 8 of the top 10 public HS players (boys) in DE applied for Sanford, and none ended up going- some didn't pass the test, some didn't receive as much as financial aid as they would have needed- whatever the story was.
The reality is that many kids want to play for coach coaches and a successful program. That helps Sanford, Ursuline and others. If you're a top girls basketball player, you should look at Sanford, Caravel, or Ursuline.
I have been coaching, training, and coaching AAU for some time now on the girls side. And I have explained this to so many people who hear my voice. The first thing is yes there is a form of recruiting going on that some of the public schools and down state program fail to do that the Sanfords, and the Ursulines. The very obvious is they hold camps throughout the summer. And they are identifying kids at an early age. And then here is the most important thing that other coaches haven’t figured out. you have to relate to the kids. In those camps the coaches are having an early relationship with the kids first and parents through those camps. Majority of those girls at Ursuline started out through john noonan’s camp. He has total access of the gym to do camps. He is even able to use tatnal to have camp. How do I know. I sent some of my players to his camps. And yes some of them are low income children that are able to come. This is also going on at Sanford. Once these coaches get a relationship with the kids those parents will ask other parent with in the program how is the coach during the season and does he get those kids into college. And the parents in the program give good feedback. Now two years ago majority of last year’s freshman class applied to Ursuline, Sanford, and caravel. Not all got into those schools because they couldn’t past the test. But imagine if they could. You would have really been made to see a lot of the public school girls that can play be at those schools. The second way they’re getting kids is parents of the program are seeing kids in middle school and are asking what school are the kids going to and encouraging the parents to take a look at these schools. I have kids in my program being recruited by parents as early as 5 grade. I’ll give you a perfect example. Delle donne was in college and was home for some reason to come and watch a city league championship game. And she was there to watch two girls (who by the way was not African American) playing a league with all boys and was competing with them. These two girls was 12 years old playing. With these boys. Next thing I knew these two girls was applying for Ursuline. One got in, the other’s parent felt that they couldn’t afford the tuition so she went to caravel instead. These two girls was Adrianna Hahn and Caroline Davis. Now parents are getting smarter as well. they are looking at the coaches track record with helping kids get the next level that comparable to their skill level. So if there d2, d3, player then they are helping them getting into schools that best fits their skill. But there getting them there. Some of these coaches will use these kids for what they can do for them now and NOT help them prepare for the next level.
But something that some of the public schools can’t provide and they have to do a better job at. Is a challenge. And I mean a challenging schedule that talented kid craves for. A real basketball player wants to play the best talent all the time win or lose. Majority of the down state teams don’t play out of state, or they play each other. And in talent pool that honestly isn't that talented how are they getting better. And some of that is they don't have Newark boys and girls club, and hicks Anderson center, a west end, hilltop, a kings wood, and browns boys and girls club for competition. Those kid aren't in the she got game showcase in dc. There not in the u of penn showcase in pa. or even the diamond state classic in de. Real players want to be challenged and pushed and not beat teams by forty with their third tier unit. And last but not least, Development. I know coaches who only coach there high school kids and then never hear from them again until fall league or next season, terrible. there are other coaches who are training there players within the rules of DIAA. You get two hours a day with two players to train. These coaches will be in the gym all day schedule two players at different times training there players. And then you can see the kids getting better. And then putting them with a AAU team that will further there development. I know public schools who won’t even open the gym for their high school coaches to train. It’s a shame that they have their hands tied. But they want their school to have success.
And not to mention you have to have good coaching to keep all of this going. And there are some good coaches out here that have never gotten a chance. and there are some bad one who keep finding jobs. you have a math teacher who can't spell basketball coaching varsity basketball. and then complaining why the players they have are transferring out after there freshman year. So what do parents do. sent there kids where there going to get challenged and pushed to get better every day and every time they step out on the court. And lets not use the bad school environment because kids will go bad school as long as there being challenge and have a chance for success.
But something that some of the public schools can’t provide and they have to do a better job at. Is a challenge. And I mean a challenging schedule that talented kid craves for. A real basketball player wants to play the best talent all the time win or lose. Majority of the down state teams don’t play out of state, or they play each other. And in talent pool that honestly isn't that talented how are they getting better. And some of that is they don't have Newark boys and girls club, and hicks Anderson center, a west end, hilltop, a kings wood, and browns boys and girls club for competition. Those kid aren't in the she got game showcase in dc. There not in the u of penn showcase in pa. or even the diamond state classic in de. Real players want to be challenged and pushed and not beat teams by forty with their third tier unit. And last but not least, Development. I know coaches who only coach there high school kids and then never hear from them again until fall league or next season, terrible. there are other coaches who are training there players within the rules of DIAA. You get two hours a day with two players to train. These coaches will be in the gym all day schedule two players at different times training there players. And then you can see the kids getting better. And then putting them with a AAU team that will further there development. I know public schools who won’t even open the gym for their high school coaches to train. It’s a shame that they have their hands tied. But they want their school to have success.
And not to mention you have to have good coaching to keep all of this going. And there are some good coaches out here that have never gotten a chance. and there are some bad one who keep finding jobs. you have a math teacher who can't spell basketball coaching varsity basketball. and then complaining why the players they have are transferring out after there freshman year. So what do parents do. sent there kids where there going to get challenged and pushed to get better every day and every time they step out on the court. And lets not use the bad school environment because kids will go bad school as long as there being challenge and have a chance for success.
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Justabasketballfan, very good overview. You be surprised by how many coaches first and last interaction with the kids is the first and last day of practice. What I can't figure out is that you tell coaches and parents of public's school palyers especially downstate and some of them believe it something special in the water at Ursuline, Caravel, Sanford St E's etc.
I talked to a Sussex Tech parent a couple of days before the Ursuline game, 100% delusional as their chances. I been around a lot of high caliber sporting teams and I've always said that just having good players doesn't guarantee sustainable success rather great organizations/programs do. The above mention programs have a methodology and a organization (admin, coaches and parents) that support their goals. Simple!
I talked to a Sussex Tech parent a couple of days before the Ursuline game, 100% delusional as their chances. I been around a lot of high caliber sporting teams and I've always said that just having good players doesn't guarantee sustainable success rather great organizations/programs do. The above mention programs have a methodology and a organization (admin, coaches and parents) that support their goals. Simple!
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it is amazing how these schools parents support each other. there integrated with the families. A parent took me to lunch just so they can have chat with one of kids parents. and if your kid is really good they still want them. there not going to hate on them because there better than there child. the only thing they care about is winning.
Zero truth. I personally know of 3 different private schools that not only based it on financial need but even pulled more $ together from their endowments or other funds & all 3 athletes go to the schools for FREE. I kid you not. i even know of one situation where a students parents were asked to pay 3K and an alum payed it for them.
Can't doubt that! Also you don't have to take the entrance exam if you enter 10th grade or later and thats a fact.
The thing about tuition, the school doesn't care who pays it, as long as it gets paid (loophole)
It's called no morals!! Very unethical These kids come into the private schools and think they are the next Elena or LeBron and want everyone to bow down to them. Entitlement at its best. Would never want anyone I know to be part of this mess. Lots of stories I could tell you and the arrogance of some of the players. I know of several cases this year alone where tuition paying parents are tired of it at the privates. When in reality these kids are only big fish in Delawares small pond and never mount to nothing.
Not at all. Just stating facts and what I've witnessed over the years here in Delaware. At the end of the day just do what is morally right. A handful of these schools would sell there souls to the devil just to win. And it amazes me that DIAA allows it. You have rules in place and you don't follow them.
I think the misconception is that these schools will bow down to the athletes to get them into their school. I would have believe that is false to a certain extent. And this is on any level high school and college. I just looked at something on youtube that NBA analyst Jalen Rose discussed about recruiting. And it is true that college recruiting can get crazy for the major sport of basketball and football. And mind you high school is not on this level but it still has the same premise. HE says that yes the athletes get some treatment because of the money generate. Fans to come watch them play and the chance for that school to make money for each round they go to- to get to a championship. This is all true. But it’s not just athletes that get recruited. If your child was a senior in high school and scored a 1400 on their SAT’s I can guarantee that there will be a number schools knocking on your door to come to their school for free. If you do something special that can generate interest to a school, they will recruit you. Athletics is only problem because let’s face it because minorities are benefiting from it. and they feel if they was an athlete they probably wouldn’t be looked at. And that may be true. But your not in the gym, on field for track, football, and baseball until late night working on your craft. You not in the rain or snow shooting, or doing drills. Some of these kids start playing their sport as early 5 or 6. Its not fair that we have some close minded adults who feel that some kids shouldn’t get there ego stroked a little for all the hard work they put in because they have figured out there passion. Shoot there are some people who never figure out what their passion in life is until there an adult. Trevor cooney generated a lot of interest when he was at Sanford, we all know what elana did for Ursuline. Now those are the extremes but don’t look at these kids thinking there not somewhat deserving of reduced tuition because of what they will do in the long run for the school. Because terrance Stansbury did wonders for Newark, as well as Aj English for howard, lenny brown, tail davis, gary lumpkin for William penn. These was public schools. Who benefited when they played? Those was free institutions for them. We have to stop taking out on these kids. And please don’t think that I don’t know that there are some kids that are overly jerks, as well as the some of the parents. But I’m talking about the kids that are looking to make something of themselves.
If there's a school providing a completely free education that isn't tied completely to need, that's surprising. I feel confident that Sanford (since that's the school at the start of this thread) is receiving tuition payments of some size for every student. BUT as EE says it may be true that some kids have non-parents pay for them. And if so, so what? Some kids (athletes and non-athletes) have grandparents pay for them... some kids have parents who suffered a tragedy and others pay for them... I don't see anything wrong with someone else paying as long as the kid is receiving a good education in a supportive environment - that's about helping students regardless of their athletic ability. The tragedy is when HS athletes are coddled and don't do well in college... and it's pretty visible which schools produce student-athletes that do well academically in college.
Fun Fact: Recruiting of ANY kind is illegal in Delaware
Coaches are not allowed to talk to middle school kids or students enrolled at a different school to discuss why their program is the best or why the kid should come play at to their school. Period. Including something as innocent as John Noonan telling a 6th grader at his camp "hey i can see you in a UA uniform" They can't even initiate contact with a prospective student themselves or via a 3rd party. And they certainly can't allow basketball to at ALL factor into an offer of financial aid. But obviously it happens ALL the time. I have personally seen text messages from some of the coaches mentioned in this thread on the phones of high school students enrolled at a different school discussing why they should transfer.
Problem is the DIAA never does anything about it. So schools who absolutely refuse to bend the rules are now suffering and losing kids to the Ursulines and Sanfords and st. E's etc
Sanford absolutely gives scholarships for athletics....as does Sallies and many many others. They just do it under the guise of financial aid. Think about it - If there are 2 kids accepted into sanford with the exact same financial status but one is a basketball stud and one isn't athletic, who do you think is getting their tuition paid for? isn't that the exact definition of giving a reduced tuition on the basis, even if partially, of athletic considerations? Some schools just can't compete with that.
I've also seen superb athletes whose parents are doctors and living in greenville ask for and be offered "tuition assistance"
It's gotten so far out of hand they might as well just allow recruiting at this point.
Coaches are not allowed to talk to middle school kids or students enrolled at a different school to discuss why their program is the best or why the kid should come play at to their school. Period. Including something as innocent as John Noonan telling a 6th grader at his camp "hey i can see you in a UA uniform" They can't even initiate contact with a prospective student themselves or via a 3rd party. And they certainly can't allow basketball to at ALL factor into an offer of financial aid. But obviously it happens ALL the time. I have personally seen text messages from some of the coaches mentioned in this thread on the phones of high school students enrolled at a different school discussing why they should transfer.
Problem is the DIAA never does anything about it. So schools who absolutely refuse to bend the rules are now suffering and losing kids to the Ursulines and Sanfords and st. E's etc
Sanford absolutely gives scholarships for athletics....as does Sallies and many many others. They just do it under the guise of financial aid. Think about it - If there are 2 kids accepted into sanford with the exact same financial status but one is a basketball stud and one isn't athletic, who do you think is getting their tuition paid for? isn't that the exact definition of giving a reduced tuition on the basis, even if partially, of athletic considerations? Some schools just can't compete with that.
I've also seen superb athletes whose parents are doctors and living in greenville ask for and be offered "tuition assistance"
It's gotten so far out of hand they might as well just allow recruiting at this point.
Is there recruiting definitely without a doubt, there's money involved too. My niece went to one of the schools in the final 4 on a 50% off tuition she was playing jv. Her mom was told when she moved up to varsity she wouldn't have to worry about that 50% anymore. Well that never happen do to she lost interest in the game and left the school after her freshman year. She's at a university now with a full ride for academics.
Well I will say yes there is a form of recruiting and the these private schools in these days and age can offer more as far as safety of an elite education. 15 years ago it was thought that the public schools could almost match the safety and college prep experience and still a good chance of going to college for academics and getting an into a good school which could lead to better opportunity in the field you are looking. It is only recently that the environment of the public schools have changed so much that parents fear sending their kids there for safety, and elite education reasons. So some parents will do whatever to send their kids to an institution where it is safe, get a great education and have a great sports career if possible. But be honest it’s only a problem because all the good kids are thinking the same thing and going to these schools and not giving an opportunity for this other schools to compete. 10 years ago when it was Newarks, howards, and these other public schools in the running for the titles no one said anything about recruiting to the private schools. Now the private schools are getting these kids and the parents are making away for their child to go to these better academic schools now it’s a problem and recruiting is something that has been coming up. I am so happy the Smyrna won the state chip. Because now the talk will subside a little. But to be honest the better coaches are in the private schools on the girls side. The boys are a little spread out a little better. And until athletic directors do a better job of getting quality coaches and open there gyms for training and athletic education, and do a little better job challenging the kids by playing out of state talent. The girls side of basketball will continue to see the private schools dominate. And Ursuline isn’t slowing down and caravel, Sanford, and st. Elizabeth will continue to challenge. You guys that get on here and complain about how this thing is working but it has been going for years and will continue until there changes being made in the public school and there athletic dept.
No it will not! Smyrna just woke up and saw the hand writing on the wall, they're a public that recruits like a private. They have the best support for athletics for a public school in the state. Funny both football and basketball teams had a key transfer that was huge part in their championship run. Because they learned that they need to recruit, nobody can tell me that two 6'10+ players (one transferred back) found their way to lower Delaware by luck. Smyrna football, if true just got a quarterback transfer to replace their outgoing senior. People need to get the head out off the sand and stop complaining just realize it your not Ursuline or others just be honest with your teams your not playing for a Championship!
Stop hiring your sisters, nieces, people who never played basketball on any level or teachers who are looking for extra money etc..
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I think it will in a sense that now that they have figured it out and have made it way for the public schools to have a blue as too what is needed to compete if that’s what they want to do. The talk now won’t be focused on just the private school doing it. those down stated teams complained so much that the upstate are getting all the talent. And I just want to know they’re not getting all the talent. The better talent is upstate for various reason that I explained in a few treads ago that your right until those ad’s stop hiring the math teacher that wants extra money, or there cousin who coached in the y league and thinks they can now coach in the high school is not going to work. so I’m not disagreeing with you. but I am saying that they will focus on the whole process as whole and not just the private schools
I know this is the girls' forum, but my post is germane. I talked to someone in December who said a certain school was good in boys basketball because it recruited. I told her that if by recruited she meant that current players told their friends to consider going there, then she would be correct. Players talk to each other about the best places to attend. It's not all on the coaches.
Also, I pointed out to her, Mount Pleasant was loaded with transfers this season. Did they recruit? How did a kid from William Penn and another from McKean end up there? Also, Cramer was enrolled at St. Elizabeth last season before changing his mind 2 weeks before school started. So this goes both ways.
Also, I pointed out to her, Mount Pleasant was loaded with transfers this season. Did they recruit? How did a kid from William Penn and another from McKean end up there? Also, Cramer was enrolled at St. Elizabeth last season before changing his mind 2 weeks before school started. So this goes both ways.
Talent wins
Talent generally gravitates to where the good coaches are
If a school has a good coach that the public also thinks is a good coach, send them some talent, they too will win
IE: Conrad
In a couple years they too will compete for Championships
Talent generally gravitates to where the good coaches are
If a school has a good coach that the public also thinks is a good coach, send them some talent, they too will win
IE: Conrad
In a couple years they too will compete for Championships
EducatedEye, your right to a degree. But to be really successful it more than just coaches and players. While it may be true that Conrad will complete for a Championship in a couple of years but what happens when the Kulesza sisters and Whittlesey are gone? Will Conrad get the players from downstate, Pa or MD etc to come? Does the coach have any pull with the selection committee to make sure certain players get in even out of state girls? We all know Stanford, St' E, Ursuline has girls on their roster that fit the profile. Will Conrad be a contender 5 to 10 years down the road? Ursuline will!
He is a good coach but once his daughters leave with out the above they wont sniff a championship. Programs are built from top down not saying that Conrad wouldn't get there but right now they're an anomaly.
He is a good coach but once his daughters leave with out the above they wont sniff a championship. Programs are built from top down not saying that Conrad wouldn't get there but right now they're an anomaly.
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Your right from an individual development standpoint, but her chances winning a state championship would still be slim to none. That's the rub your not going to win consistently with girls just from Red Clay, shoot I give you all of New Castle County. The top teams have talent from wherever they can find it. So your saying that if you put Conrad coach at AI DuPont (Red Clay) and that would make them perennially state champions? I think not; you have to get talent from where ever => recruiting.
Remember Ursuline is in the business of winning state championships it's a small component of marketing their school. . . .
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I agree with simmonj4618. Longevity is the key for these teams. It was funny once Ursuline won the chip I was invited to there after the championship victory party with parents and players at Ursuline. And I had a chance to talk with the AD said that we have good 9th graders coming in next year that will keep us going for at least another 5 years. I told her you guys have chance to really go the next two years easily. She was like that is the plan. Which told me that the school and staff are behind the machine that is Ursuline. Now these public schools are not in the business of building a machine. There in a business of just having a machine. Now I was at the semi final games where Sanford and Ursuline played. And there was talk all around me of the variance of both schools. And it is funny, when I came up, the goal was to go where no one was at and make your own mark. It is funny how times have changed and even though Ursuline has lot of talent already. There are kids willing to go there even if they have to sit the bench for two years and play. It is the strangest thing. But if the coaching is bad in other schools and there so bad that there willing to sit a dominate schools versus playing at place where they make a name for themselves says a lot about the landscape of the coaches in high school basketball. It would be nice to see a lot of parity in the school system so you could really see if these top coaches can really coach. But Ursuline will continue to push along until school confirm with what they’re doing. I just think Ursuline is just ahead of the teams here in Delaware. And the way it looks they are at least 30 points ahead of the teams in Delaware. And I think they was holding back.
For the AD to say that they must have elevated their basketball skills already in making that statement. How many public schools AD's have a plan for each specific sport and who can tell specifically about kid's they have in the pipeline (7th and 8th graders)? I wouldn't be surprise if they didn't have a recruiting board. LOL
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For the AD to say that they must have elevated their basketball skills already in making that statement. How many public schools AD's have a plan for each specific sport and who can tell specifically about kid's they have in the pipeline (7th and 8th graders)? I wouldn't be surprise if they didn't have a recruiting board. LOL
LOL LOL LOL- believe it could like that the way ursuline is going..
FACTS!!!! As a parent if you have the opportunity to send your child to a private because they made the grades K-8th YOU OWE IT TO THEM to at least take a look at the private option.
IM SURE IT WAS FATTY.. SHE WAS ON THE MOVE THE MINUTE THE SEASON WAS OVER.. THEY COULDNT HIRE A COACH FAST ENOUGH THAT COULD OF HELPED HER STAY?.. I WONDER WHAT SCHOOL THOUGH. I HEARD OF SOME SCHOOLS BUT NOT SURE IF ITS TRUE
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