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- Thread starter Outofstate12
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How does Grant Gillian get 1st team all state but second team all conference? Does this happen a lot with players?
Steadylaxin - I can only guess that one of three things (or possibly all three) happened. First, some Henlopen North Conference coaches are anything but. Second, other than CR no other Henlopen North coach saw Gillan make a save simply because he didn't have to against them - the two or maybe three goals they scored were against his replacement with a continuous running clock for the third and fourth quarter. Three, by the time the coaches got around to voting for goalie they were tired of electing Cape players. It rarely happens, but it is not the first time.
It has nothing to do with being a key player in a championship game? As posted before " one game shouldn't sway a season long award"
IMO I think this is exactly what happened. Maybe the cape division was picked too soon, why wouldn't the "picks" be done all together, when all games are played. What would happen if Delmar or Indian River ran away with it made it to the championship game? Win or lose not one kid was chosen? Seems unfair to pick prior to all games being played. Plus how is the other positions picked, is attack chosen on goals/assists ?
IMO I think this is exactly what happened. Maybe the cape division was picked too soon, why wouldn't the "picks" be done all together, when all games are played. What would happen if Delmar or Indian River ran away with it made it to the championship game? Win or lose not one kid was chosen? Seems unfair to pick prior to all games being played. Plus how is the other positions picked, is attack chosen on goals/assists ?
Outofstate12 you're looking in the wrong direction on this one. The player voted All-Henlopen North ahead of Gillan gave up 11 goals against Middletown and 10 goals against Sussex Tech in losses to both teams. He did have 16 saves against Cape, but gave up 19 goals. That Gillan wasn't picked first in the Henlopen North ahead of him is ridiculous. Finally, if you're looking for all high school sports awards to make sense I have a great bridge in New York you can buy.
#1 There needs to be a qualifier that to be eligible to be voted first team all state you have to be first team all conference in your own conference. Period.
#2 Having 4 first team all state at each position and 2 goalies dilutes the honor of being first team all state. All the players on the first team all state team are excellent players, but the coaches need to make the hard decisions. For example, Kern vs Gillan at goalie is a tough decision...maybe a coin flip, but only one should be all state.
#3 I'm glad I don't have to make the decisions.
#2 Having 4 first team all state at each position and 2 goalies dilutes the honor of being first team all state. All the players on the first team all state team are excellent players, but the coaches need to make the hard decisions. For example, Kern vs Gillan at goalie is a tough decision...maybe a coin flip, but only one should be all state.
#3 I'm glad I don't have to make the decisions.
freddiefokker I was inclined to think the same thing at first - that not making a conference first team should be a disqualifier for All-State recognition - but then realized it would transfer significant control of All-State selections to the conferences . . . stop and think about that for a minute. As to the number of All-State 1st team selections at each position, I agree that it should be kept to the number allowed on the field at any time. I'm not a proponent of coin flips determining anything important. However, in the Kern-Gillan situation I might consider their class year and defer to the more senior player which is Gillan, or the outcome of a head-to-head matchup which again goes to Gillan. How many years do you think it will be that the PC crowd does away with post-season awards?
Conferences are a smaller group by nature and easier to be swayed by a single entity that's deemed knowledgeable. Letting a lone center of influence determine the eligibility of a kid for post season awards isn't a good idea.
To the Victors go the Spoils!
To the Victors go the Spoils!
Selections are already somewhat PC. Or, should I say, a virtual Noah's Ark, with the way the schools are represented. As for the Gillan/Kern match up...keep in mind that Sals won the first game. So, you'd have to weigh the final results more heavily to go Gillan's way. So many factors.
No one will EVER be entirely happy with all of the selections - or the selection process.
This post was edited on 6/5 3:37 PM by WoodenStick
No one will EVER be entirely happy with all of the selections - or the selection process.
This post was edited on 6/5 3:37 PM by WoodenStick
Two goalies for first team isn't as crazy as 08 when the middie for Cape and goalie for Sallies split the POY award.
I was being facetious about the coin flip. I do like the idea of tiebreaker #1 being head to head and maybe class year being a secondary tie breaker. In the case of Kern vs Gillan that makes a lot of sense.
I'm not following your logic of the conferences somehow controlling the All-State selections. Maybe give me an example, I'm not getting it. My wife says I can be a little dense
Here are examples of how a conference could have undue influence over All-State selections:
If a player was required to be 1st Team Henlopen North Conference in order to qualify for 1st Team All-State, and if for some reason a majority of Henlopen North coaches had it in for Cape they could ensure that no Cape players were named 1st Team All-State by purposely not voting Cape players onto the Henlopen North 1st Team. I don't think any Henlopen North purposely voted against Gillan, but I assume he was not voted 1st Team Henlopen North because a majority of voting coaches voted for the other guy for some reason.
Another way it could happen would be if a majority of Henlopen North coaches wanted to give a specific player the best opportunity to be named 1st Team All-State over another Henlopen North player. In the end, neither of these examples totally control who makes All-State, but certainly could impact it by disqualifying players prior to a state-wide coaches vote.
Sounds like your wife and mine had the same trainer.
If a player was required to be 1st Team Henlopen North Conference in order to qualify for 1st Team All-State, and if for some reason a majority of Henlopen North coaches had it in for Cape they could ensure that no Cape players were named 1st Team All-State by purposely not voting Cape players onto the Henlopen North 1st Team. I don't think any Henlopen North purposely voted against Gillan, but I assume he was not voted 1st Team Henlopen North because a majority of voting coaches voted for the other guy for some reason.
Another way it could happen would be if a majority of Henlopen North coaches wanted to give a specific player the best opportunity to be named 1st Team All-State over another Henlopen North player. In the end, neither of these examples totally control who makes All-State, but certainly could impact it by disqualifying players prior to a state-wide coaches vote.
Sounds like your wife and mine had the same trainer.
How is All American chosen?
Is this done by coaches as well?
What is the pre-requisite for that?
Is this done by coaches as well?
What is the pre-requisite for that?
OutofState...Here you go. Details below:
High School Awards and Information
The US Lacrosse Men's
Game All-American Awards/Recognition process itself is maintained by the
US Lacrosse Men's Game Coaches Subcommittee and administered locally by
the High School Area Chairmen. The subcommittee, through the Area
Chairmen, oversees the selection of seven (7) awards categories. Each
Area is required to participate in each of these seven categories: All-AmericanAll-AcademicCoach of the YearAssistant Coach of the YearMan of the Year (Area and National)Area Chairmen Handbook
High School Awards and Information
The US Lacrosse Men's
Game All-American Awards/Recognition process itself is maintained by the
US Lacrosse Men's Game Coaches Subcommittee and administered locally by
the High School Area Chairmen. The subcommittee, through the Area
Chairmen, oversees the selection of seven (7) awards categories. Each
Area is required to participate in each of these seven categories: All-AmericanAll-AcademicCoach of the YearAssistant Coach of the YearMan of the Year (Area and National)Area Chairmen Handbook
No doubt. The AA selection makes the 2nd team AC selection even more ridiculous.
Anyone know what other states do? Can you be the best player at your position in the state and not in your conference?
There seems to be a rule for everything in that manual. You have to be 1st team in order to get a AA nomination, but nothing about what would qualify you for 1st team. Certainly winning your conference should be one of them, IMO.
And why is it OK for the girls to have junior and senior All Academics, but for the boys its just for Seniors.
And why is it OK for the girls to have junior and senior All Academics, but for the boys its just for Seniors.
I imagine that at one time there was similar confusion/contradiction regarding organizational rules of previously established sports, ie. football, basketball, baseball, etc. for high schools and youth programs but it was prior to most of our time. With the rapid development and growth of lacrosse at all levels the rules and guidelines will likely remain fairly dynamic for the next 5-10 years. What's important to realize is that until about 5 years ago the game existed in a somewhat "holistic" environment, largely away from the influence of commercialism. It is intriguing (but a little sad at the same time) to watch lax morph into a business which, due to its increasing popularity, is inevitable. With even a little imagination it is easy to predict the growth points where TV coverage and ensuing advertising revenues will largely determine the "shape" of lacrosse in the US, and even the world.
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