Notes/thoughts 2019 state

[princepoppy]

Just a quick rundown and observations from sat night

The wrestlers looking for the whirly bird is out of control and its always when they are in a bad spot or about to get turned. I feel like a few schools teach it at this point.

OW. 5 great choices to pick from.

Giampietro - 2 pins, 1 tech, 1 maj
Spence – 3 pins, 1 minor
Latch – 3pins, 1 minor
Dean – 3 pins, 1 tech. My choice 7:33 total time wrestling
Schneider – 3 falls, 1 maj. 114 career pins, 51 season wins. Big numbers

7 Henlopen Champs
5 Independent Champs
2 Blue Hen Champs.

9 # 1 seeds won that’s a great job seeding.
3 # 2 seed
1 # 3 seed
1 # 4 seed

106 - Smyrna dominated this match from all positions.
113 - Spence is the real deal for sure Maryland is getting something here.
120 - Nice to see Natarcola get what he has been working for. Nat was ready for him.
126 - Poore looked good and fought off the funk. It seemed like his opp wanted to give the whirly bird to get some time.
132 - Caruso closed out his career in style. Griffith is going to be around for years to come.
138 - Great last match could go either way. Latch finished strong. Great comment to the news journal. Probably my last match ever.
145 - Dean should have been a 4x people ran from him it seemed.
152 – CR looked thought I think he could have had him. Hall was all talked up to be the next coming.
160 – O’Conner for having a though semi match he went there and performed well.
170 – I thought it was going to be a another close match. Not a better way to close your the career.
182 – Davis finally got what he was chasing. I thought it was his last year to get.
195 – Great job by Sals I bet he thought he would place and not win earlier in the week.
220 – Harp is the legit. His takedowns are brutal and hard to stop.
285 – We all expected this type of match. It seems like it happens every year. I felt Hudson sand bagged him in SV.

 

[Fightingbluehen]

Great breakdown, I 100 percent agree about injury timeouts being ridiculously out of control. I think what happened in the 126 Semis was very unfortunate for Sye (He should have gotten 4 points there IMO). I’ve seen this happen as a pattern for certain kids, I’m not sure how to combat it but I’m this particular situation I couldn’t see how an injury would have presented- but I do understand the Refs want to be cautious

 

[WrestlingFan1994]

Great breakdown, I 100 percent agree about injury timeouts being ridiculously out of control. I think what happened in the 126 Semis was very unfortunate for Sye (He should have gotten 4 points there IMO). I’ve seen this happen as a pattern for certain kids, I’m not sure how to combat it but I’m this particular situation I couldn’t see how an injury would have presented- but I do understand the Refs want to be cautious

From asking fans in the stands I heard had an ankle sprain of some sort.

 

[Fightingbluehen]

From asking fans in the stands I heard had an ankle sprain of some sort.

Dang, that kid sure is prone to injury..... Either that or he has very bad luck every year around the time of states! That’s unfortunate..

 

[myrealname]

Dang, that kid sure is prone to injury..... Either that or he has very bad luck every year around the time of states! That’s unfortunate..

He looked to be moving ok in the finals. The kid from caravel was just better.

 

[youjustme]

Dang, that kid sure is prone to injury..... Either that or he has very bad luck every year around the time of states! That’s unfortunate..

I heard that he had a previous ankle injury that almost required surgery. Instead of immediately branding a kid a fake when they are hurt, how about giving a salute to all the kids that continue grinding when banged up. If you look at the "controversial" 126 lb semi match, you will see that he indicated injury immediately and before getting into real trouble. And I heard that he was limping around plenty afterwards. As a dad of wrestlers that have had kids get off of their backs using the twirly finger against my kids, I have little tolerance for it. But the adult whining and finger pointing (reference intentional) is getting ridiculous. If it was a kid on your team, your first thought would be "Oh, poor little Johnny. I hope it's nothing serious". But a kid on other teams, and the first thought is "Look, he's faking". Ironically, it's the parents of the brattiest kids that are the first to point at other kids. How about managing the emerging menace in your house before labeling a kid that you know nothing about? Just a thought.
Fightingbluehen...I was not coming at you, and only used your message to bring my thoughts up. Anyone who my words might apply to can figure that out for themselves.

 

[youjustme]

Great breakdown, I 100 percent agree about injury timeouts being ridiculously out of control. I think what happened in the 126 Semis was very unfortunate for Sye (He should have gotten 4 points there IMO). I’ve seen this happen as a pattern for certain kids, I’m not sure how to combat it but I’m this particular situation I couldn’t see how an injury would have presented- but I do understand the Refs want to be cautious

A wrestler can only earn four points if he has already earned a three point near fall before an injury is indicated. In the case you referenced, it was too early for that requirement to have been met.

 

[Fightingbluehen]

A wrestler can only earn four points if he has already earned a three point near fall before an injury is indicated. In the case you referenced, it was too early for that requirement to have been met.

You’ll be able to shed light on this question though- What is the criteria or rule of thumb for when a ref should stop it versus let that situation play out? How are they suppose to “decide” what is faked versus what is real? That’s a really tricky task I’m sure and a lose/lose because one team is gonna be pissed with the call

 

[youjustme]

You’ll be able to shed light on this question though- What is the criteria or rule of thumb for when a ref should stop it versus let that situation play out? How are they suppose to “decide” what is faked versus what is real? That’s a really tricky task I’m sure and a lose/lose because one team is gonna be pissed with the call

As a matter of principle, I feel comfortable sharing the rules, but am less comfortable sharing my feelings about the rules. I will say that In the split seconds of a match, the ref has little time to accurately assess if a kid is faking or not, so most just stop action immediately. If in the rare case that the official determines that the wrestler faked an injury, the wrestler can be penalized a point for unsportsmanlike conduct. If a kid's knee, elbow, or ankle gets put in a weird angle, most of the time it is obvious and the ref recognizes it around the same time as the wrestler reacts to it. Unfortunately, some kids will try to game the system, and I suspect that some coaches "remind" kids of the injury option if "needed". But unless it's a "lung timeout" (fake injury at a non-critical moment because kid is damn tired), it is hard to know what is real or fake. Things that now require stabilization and a trip in an ambulance, would have gotten a "get up and walk it off" back in my day. Refs would rather be safe than sorry.

 

[Leverage1991]

This particular kid was definitely hurt and good call on refs part in the match in question

 

[Fightingbluehen]

Yea so my biggest issue with all of this and I’ve seen it a ton over the past few years is what you called the “lung timeouts”.. up until a few years ago I had never really seen a kid signal to a ref for their own injury time- and a lot of time most can see that the wrestler is grasping for a break to catch their breath but it’s a fine line because no ref wants to make that decision to force a kid to “suck it up” (those words aren’t heard often anymore)

 

[Dahammer23]

This particular kid was definitely hurt and good call on refs part in the match in question

That sounds good. But if I’m that other kids father, you couldn’t tell me that. Especially if he’s good enough to wrestle in the next match.

 

[Leverage1991]

That sounds good. But if I’m that other kids father, you couldn’t tell me that. Especially if he’s good enough to wrestle in the next match.

They carried him to the trainer room and he limped the rest of the day and in the finals. St Georges got the points, those are the breaks sometimes. To win a state title, fate and luck are just as much as talent and hard work. Both kids are tough as nails and are better people for being a part of the sport. Its who you become not what you win....

 

[Dahammer23]

They carried him to the trainer room and he limped the rest of the day and in the finals. St Georges got the points, those are the breaks sometimes. To win a state title, fate and luck are just as much as talent and hard work. Both kids are tough as nails and are better people for being a part of the sport. Its who you become not what you win....

I hear what your saying and agree to a certain extent but... the sting of it, just leave a bad taste and a lot of anger for the other kid who’s worked all off season. I guess there’s really no way to get away from it.

 

[youjustme]

I hear what your saying and agree to a certain extent but... the sting of it, just leave a bad taste and a lot of anger for the other kid who’s worked all off season. I guess there’s really no way to get away from it.

I have nothing more to say about any particular match in States. Generically, let me say that most matches last six minutes. The outcome never comes down to just one action, penalty, call, non-call, etc. It's a culmination of dozens of movements, do's, didn't do's, and should've done's. I don't let my kids blame any one thing for the outcome of a match. If they don't get the two points they think they deserve or the escape point, I tell them that they didn't make it obvious enough to the ref. In fact, I tell them that things should be so obvious, even the janitor should say "Yep, that was 2"! Let's stop letting kids (and angry Dads) find an external reason for every thing that doesn't go their way. There is plenty of time before and after an injury stoppage to impact the result of a match. No one ever blames the takedown they gave up in the first half minute if they can find something that happened in the last ten seconds to point to for the match result. I had a son win a regular decision when a kid twirly fingered while on his back in a spladle, and that result lost (help lose) the state dual championship for his team. My first thought was why didn't you use something else to pin him after the stoppage? Why didn't you work for a tech first and then try to pin? Why didn't you stretch the spladle less and not give kid an "injury" out? The point is that there is a lot that can be done to win a match regardless of a call or two. Sometimes a kid (12 year old for example) will lose a match because time ran out on the takedown he needed at the end. The coach (but usually Dad) will argue for the two points, lose the argument, and walk off with the kid saying "Don't worry Johnny, you won that match. It's not your fault". And this is why kids have no ownership of consequences these days. Yes, yes, among other factors as well.... Btw, I'm already in baseball mode. Enjoy the off season, if you have one!

 

[Fightingbluehen]

I have nothing more to say about any particular match in States. Generically, let me say that most matches last six minutes. The outcome never comes down to just one action, penalty, call, non-call, etc. It's a culmination of dozens of movements, do's, didn't do's, and should've done's. I don't let my kids blame any one thing for the outcome of a match. If they don't get the two points they think they deserve or the escape point, I tell them that they didn't make it obvious enough to the ref. In fact, I tell them that things should be so obvious, even the janitor should say "Yep, that was 2"! Let's stop letting kids (and angry Dads) find an external reason for every thing that doesn't go their way. There is plenty of time before and after an injury stoppage to impact the result of a match. No one ever blames the takedown they gave up in the first half minute if they can find something that happened in the last ten seconds to point to for the match result. I had a son win a regular decision when a kid twirly fingered while on his back in a spladle, and that result lost (help lose) the state dual championship for his team. My first thought was why didn't you use something else to pin him after the stoppage? Why didn't you work for a tech first and then try to pin? Why didn't you stretch the spladle less and not give kid an "injury" out? The point is that there is a lot that can be done to win a match regardless of a call or two. Sometimes a kid (12 year old for example) will lose a match because time ran out on the takedown he needed at the end. The coach (but usually Dad) will argue for the two points, lose the argument, and walk off with the kid saying "Don't worry Johnny, you won that match. It's not your fault". And this is why kids have no ownership of consequences these days. Yes, yes, among other factors as well.... Btw, I'm already in baseball mode. Enjoy the off season, if you have one!

You are exactly right- and I catch myself doing it often (even with no dog in the fight!). I believe it’s human nature to cast blame, and we will never know what the outcome would have been. At the end of the day, you are very right about it being a valuable life lesson for these kids to learn that we can only control our own actions and not those of others.

 

[jxs2151]

I have nothing more to say about any particular match in States. Generically, let me say that most matches last six minutes. The outcome never comes down to just one action, penalty, call, non-call, etc. It's a culmination of dozens of movements, do's, didn't do's, and should've done's. I don't let my kids blame any one thing for the outcome of a match. If they don't get the two points they think they deserve or the escape point, I tell them that they didn't make it obvious enough to the ref. In fact, I tell them that things should be so obvious, even the janitor should say "Yep, that was 2"! Let's stop letting kids (and angry Dads) find an external reason for every thing that doesn't go their way. There is plenty of time before and after an injury stoppage to impact the result of a match. No one ever blames the takedown they gave up in the first half minute if they can find something that happened in the last ten seconds to point to for the match result. I had a son win a regular decision when a kid twirly fingered while on his back in a spladle, and that result lost (help lose) the state dual championship for his team. My first thought was why didn't you use something else to pin him after the stoppage? Why didn't you work for a tech first and then try to pin? Why didn't you stretch the spladle less and not give kid an "injury" out? The point is that there is a lot that can be done to win a match regardless of a call or two. Sometimes a kid (12 year old for example) will lose a match because time ran out on the takedown he needed at the end. The coach (but usually Dad) will argue for the two points, lose the argument, and walk off with the kid saying "Don't worry Johnny, you won that match. It's not your fault". And this is why kids have no ownership of consequences these days. Yes, yes, among other factors as well.... Btw, I'm already in baseball mode. Enjoy the off season, if you have one!

And this right here is exactly why this man has the type of children he has. To be admired, for sure.

 

[youjustme]

And this right here is exactly why this man has the type of children he has. To be admired, for sure.

Thanks JS, but Mom is the one that keeps everyone (EVERYONE!) in check! She is pretty easygoing in public, though. That's good.