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The new “updated” realignment proposal

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HSftballlaxFan

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Oct 4, 2008
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this is the new alignment proposal, that could be voted on as early as next month....”out of the 46 athletic directors the proposal was sent too, only two denied the change”

Division 3A
District 1: Appoquinimink, Hodgson, Howard, St. George’s, Salesianum, William Penn

District 2: Caesar Rodney, Cape Henlopen, Dover, Middletown, Smyrna, Sussex Central


Division 2A
District 1: A.I. DuPont, Archmere, Brandywine, Concord, Delcastle, Mt. Pleasant, St. Elizabeths

District 2: Caravel, Christiana, Conrad, DMA, Glasgow, Newark, St. Marks

District 3: Delmar, Lake Forest, Milford, Polytech, Red Lion, Sussex Tech, Woodbridge


Division 1A
District 1: Charter, Dickinson, Mckean, St. Andrews, Tatnall, Tower Hill, Friends

District 2: Early College, FSMA, Indian River, Laurel, Odessa, Seaford


Accordinng to the proposed realignment, playoffs would be decided by points index much like we have now, and Divisions 3A, and 1A would be 8 team tournaments while Division 2 would be a 12 team tournament

Any thoughts on this proposal ladies and gents?
 
HSftballlaxFan said:
this is the new alignment proposal, that could be voted on as early as next month....”out of the 46 athletic directors the proposal was sent too, only two denied the change”

Division 3A
District 1: Appoquinimink, Hodgson, Howard, St. George’s, Salesianum, William Penn

District 2: Caesar Rodney, Cape Henlopen, Dover, Middletown, Smyrna, Sussex Central


Division 2A
District 1: A.I. DuPont, Archmere, Brandywine, Concord, Delcastle, Mt. Pleasant, St. Elizabeths

District 2: Caravel, Christiana, Conrad, DMA, Glasgow, Newark, St. Marks

District 3: Delmar, Lake Forest, Milford, Polytech, Red Lion, Sussex Tech, Woodbridge


Division 1A
District 1: Charter, Dickinson, Mckean, St. Andrews, Tatnall, Tower Hill, Friends

District 2: Early College, FSMA, Indian River, Laurel, Odessa, Seaford


Accordinng to the proposed realignment, playoffs would be decided by points index much like we have now, and Divisions 3A, and 1A would be 8 team tournaments while Division 2 would be a 12 team tournament

Any thoughts on this proposal ladies and gents?
Click to expand...
Right away: Too many teams in each playoff.
Tower Hill and Friends Should be up a division. Conrad and Christiana should go down a division.
 
Looks like it's heavy on location of schools and keeping some groups together i.e... Silk Panty League.. with the exception of Red Lion they would do some traveling..

There is no perfect but it's far better than what we have. As for too many teams making playoffs well that is pretty much the trend for HS sports everywhere besides it's better for the sport the more practice and games the kids can play.. JMHO
 
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Now I at first glance I agreed with Yun, way too many teams making playoffs. All it’s going to do is devalue the playoffs. It’s almost like the little leagues where every kid gets a trophy. (Which I’m not a fan of, never have been, never will)

anyway, looking at the formations, I can understand going to a 12 team playoff for Division 2A, there’s 21? Teams in that proposed division so I’m for that. I think Division 3A should stay at 6 teams. And you could probably go down to 6 teams in Division 1A as well. I’d be okay with that.

I also agree, Conrad needs to come down, maybe even St.Elizabeth’s, and Polytech. I wouldn’t move Red Lion up just yet because they’ve only had one year of success before returning so the verdict is out on them. And Friends and Tower Hill needs to move up, much like Yun has said. Laurel I’m 50/50 on.

I’m kind of for this proposal, especially the “out of conference game every other week” deal they have lined up. Some teams would do a lot of traveling; like Red Lion,Odessa, FSMA, and Middletown but I think those teams would be okay for the most part.
 
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Polytech is in just as bad of a situation as before. Lose Smyrna Dover and Central. Replaced with Woodbridge and Delmar lol
 
While anything is better than current setup, the proposal looks like they abandoned the metrics—population and win%— from the first proposal. Tower Hill and Friends would mercy rule 75% of their games; how does that help competitiveness?
 
ldrive said:
While anything is better than current setup, the proposal looks like they abandoned the metrics—population and win%— from the first proposal. Tower Hill and Friends would mercy rule 75% of their games; how does that help competitiveness?
Click to expand...

I have to think it has something to do with the Indy League wanting to keep their teams in the same Div. to go along but again remember the Indy League schools are not full members of the DIAA. They are associate members so I am not sure if they even have a vote in any of this.
 
Not sure if they are full members or not but why would all of other conferences get broken up and they get to stay together? There will be no reason they can’t play Tatnall and St Andrews if they still want. Seems stupid to have one of the reasons for the change be competitiveness and giving these programs a chance total grow and have TH and WFS dominate. If the plan is to reshuffle after 2, Indy Al’s hills just delaying inevitable
 
HSftballlaxFan said:
this is the new alignment proposal, that could be voted on as early as next month....”out of the 46 athletic directors the proposal was sent too, only two denied the change”

Division 3A
District 1: Appoquinimink, Hodgson, Howard, St. George’s, Salesianum, William Penn

District 2: Caesar Rodney, Cape Henlopen, Dover, Middletown, Smyrna, Sussex Central


Division 2A
District 1: A.I. DuPont, Archmere, Brandywine, Concord, Delcastle, Mt. Pleasant, St. Elizabeths

District 2: Caravel, Christiana, Conrad, DMA, Glasgow, Newark, St. Marks

District 3: Delmar, Lake Forest, Milford, Polytech, Red Lion, Sussex Tech, Woodbridge


Division 1A
District 1: Charter, Dickinson, Mckean, St. Andrews, Tatnall, Tower Hill, Friends

District 2: Early College, FSMA, Indian River, Laurel, Odessa, Seaford


Accordinng to the proposed realignment, playoffs would be decided by points index much like we have now, and Divisions 3A, and 1A would be 8 team tournaments while Division 2 would be a 12 team tournament

Any thoughts on this proposal ladies and gents?
Click to expand...

I would move Delcastle, Polytech, and Conrad down to 1A and move Tower Hill, Friends, and Laurel up to 2A.
 
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Titanium Shadow said:
I would move Delcastle, Polytech, and Conrad down to 1A and move Tower Hill, Friends, and Laurel up to 2A.
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I agree with those moves but

From earlier formulas I saw , enrollment does play a part in determining classification. I think it was 50%, that being said I am guessing Poly and Delcastle's enrollment is to high to put them in 1A at this point. Laurel in 1A I don't understand other than who from 2A southern area (Dist 3) do you switch out with? I would say Red Lion if we are considering enrollment but RLCA has done good for two years with the transfers but I don't expect that to keep up especially if the coach leaves now that his kid graduated.

Poly would be who should go but I am not sure if by their formula they are using they can with their enrollment numbers(1182). My guess is it would only be 2 years with Laurel in 1A then they will swap with RLCA in 2023.

Indian River (968) has the potential to put a good team on the field as well and they have before. Wonder what happened there? New Woodbridge School and ballers are choicing to WB now?

just thoughts.. will be interesting to see how it all plays out..
 
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Overall I like this. No system is ever going to be perfect
Howard probably isn't a fan of having to move up to 3A
Red Lion will be doing a ton of traveling
TH and Friends - haha
12 teams for 2A playoffs is a lot. Can it be 10? Top 2 teams from each District with 4 at-large bids
Like the idea of a bowl game for the teams that don't make playoffs to get them to 10 games
 
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BackinBlack86 said:
I agree with those moves but

From earlier formulas I saw , enrollment does play a part in determining classification. I think it was 50%, that being said I am guessing Poly and Delcastle's enrollment is to high to put them in 1A at this point. Laurel in 1A I don't understand other than who from 2A southern area (Dist 3) do you switch out with? I would say Red Lion if we are considering enrollment but RLCA has done good for two years with the transfers but I don't expect that to keep up especially if the coach leaves not that his kid graduated.

Poly would be who should go but I am not sure if by their formula they are using they can with their enrollment numbers(1182). My guess is it would only be 2 years with Laurel in 1A then they will swap with RLCA in 2023.

Indian River (968) has the potential to put a good team on the field as well and they have before. Wonder what happened there? New Woodbridge School and ballers are choicing to WB now?

just thoughts.. will be interesting to see how it all plays out..
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They can always tweak the formulas to get Poly into 1A. Just put some weight on score differential for instance and they will drop fast. I'm sure I could come up with a formula to make it happen if given the data and the time.

The talent pool of kids for each school in a public school is, on average, the same for all schools over time (choice skews this a bit of course). So there is really no inherent reason for one school to be better than the others over the long term except for the coaches, and support from the administration/parents. In fact the bigger schools should be better on average than the smaller schools.

Why is Seaford so bad at football lately for instance? Why is Indian River not very good? Both have more kids than Woodbridge and Delmar. Lack of school/community support plus coaching pretty much has to be the reasons (and I am not dumping on any particular coach here, I don't know any of them or their circumstances).
 
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"Lot of alignments still under consideration".. In other words a cluster bomb. You knew this would happen. They are trying to come up with something everyone agrees on and that just simply is not possible. So pretty much nothing will get done. Which is typical these days and as predicted.
 
Howard belongs in 2A. They do not have enough boys to sustain a 3A schedule on an ongoing basis. I say that even though I believe they would have won the D1 tournament last year and have pushed for an annual Big S - Howard FB game.

But it is better than whatever we have now!!!!
 
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Uncle Bumfuzzled said:
Howard belongs in 2A. They do not have enough boys to sustain a 3A schedule on an ongoing basis. I say that even though I believe they would have won the D1 tournament last year and have pushed for an annual Big S - Howard FB game.

Bit it is better than whatever we have now!!!!
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Then what's the purpose of realignment if Howard continues to win the majority of their games with a running clock? If Howard belongs in 2A, then smaller Delmar and Woodbridge belong in 2A in perpetuity as well.

I listened to a podcast of the Rick Jensen show last night with Sean Green as a guest and Sean said that according to the formula (50% enrollment, 30% 3 year record, 20% 5 year record), Howard was ranked 9th in the state. Sean also said Howard had something around 850-900 students. That's only 150-200 less than the current D1 break point. Sean also mentioned how Howard pulls good athletes from the surrounding area schools, so if you can't move Howard up to 3A, you can't move any school up.
 
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TS, not vociferously disagreeing with you. Howard’s success usually included walkover victories every year against weaker opponents who belong in 1A. That’s not their fault. That’s due to the conference structure that had to be blown up.

As a vo tech school, Howard is structured with approximately a 2-1 girls to boy ratio. This will come back to bite them for the next 2 years they have to play in 3A. They have been victimized by their weak Flight B conference. Yes, they had 2 years of exceptional teams. Ritter and Matthews are great coaches. They beat everybody but stayed in their lane.

Other than that, I am generally OK. I do think that the Hillers and Friends belong in 2A not in 1A which should be for really struggling programs.

Hope to see all of my gumbahs at the Big S -Howard game in a few months.
 
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Titanium Shadow said:
Then what's the purpose of realignment if Howard continues to win the majority of their games with a running clock? If Howard belongs in 2A, then smaller Delmar and Woodbridge belong in 2A in perpetuity as well.

I listened to a podcast of the Rick Jensen show last night with Sean Green as a guest and Sean said that according to the formula (50% enrollment, 30% 3 year record, 20% 5 year record), Howard was ranked 9th in the state. Sean also said Howard had something around 850-900 students. That's only 150-200 less than the current D1 break point. Sean also mentioned how Howard pulls good athletes from the surrounding area schools, so if you can't move Howard up to 3A, you can't move any school up.
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All excellent points... furthermore I think the divisions should be even in numbers... 14-14-14 and the teams fall where they fall in the formula. If your current division ends up too much for you the formula will bear that out and you will then be moved..

This thing can be a moving target with programs going up and down in talent and abilities over time and in some cases just a couple of years. Pick the formula, stick to it and teams fall where they fall.. end of story
 
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Uncle Bumfuzzled said:
TS, not vociferously disagreeing with you. Howard’s success usually included walkover victories every year against weaker opponents who belong in 1A. That’s not their fault. That’s due to the conference structure that had to be blown up.

As a vo tech school, Howard is structured with approximately a 2-1 girls to boy ratio. This will come back to bite them for the next 2 years they have in 3A. They have been victimized by their weak Flight B conference. Yes, they had 2 years of exceptional teams. Ritter and Matthews are great coaches. They beat everybody but stayed in their lane.

Other than that, I am generally OK. I do think that the Hillers and Friends belong in 2A not in 1A which should be for really struggling programs.

Hope to see all of my gumbahs at the Big S -Howard game in a few months.
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That's the beauty of the system/formula. Right now currently Howard belongs in that top group of teams. I don't think you can argue there is one team in the 2A examples that should go up over them. They are not even the bottom of the top 12.

Now if what you predict may happen that they cannot sustain their current level then they would then be dropped by the formula which will be recalculated every two years..

Personally I think being in the top division will help them "attract" more ballers. Look what it did for St G and HVT moving up
 
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No matter where you draw the line the teams just above the line will lobby they should be in the lower. Draw the line (formula and divisions) stick to it and the teams that are at the bottom have two choices. Work to get better to be competitive in your division or lose badly and get moved down.. but it should all be formula driven with no opinions or debate who goes where... Like Sean Green did rank the teams using the formula and you are what the formula says you are. Right now Howard is #9. They would have to drop to 13 (using the division set up shown above) to go to 2A. Pretty simple really
 
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Titanium Shadow said:
14 schools in 3A would almost certainly move Woodbridge up to 3A. Sean Green said Woodbridge was just below the cut line for 3A.
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There are more schools than I thought (46) assuming Odessa and Early College fields a varsity team. SO it would be something like 14 (7and7), 18 (9and9), 14 (7and7) there would be no need for a division to only have 9 games and yes I would think WB and Tech would start at 3A and Christiana at 3A
 
BackinBlack86 said:
No matter where you draw the line the teams just above the line will lobby they should be in the lower. Draw the line (formula and divisions) stick to it and the teams that are at the bottom have two choices. Work to get better to be competitive in your division or lose badly and get moved down.. but it should all be formula driven with no opinions or debate who goes where... Like Sean Green did rank the teams using the formula and you are what the formula says you are. Right now Howard is #9. They would have to drop to 13 (using the division set up shown above) to go to 2A. Pretty simple really
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%100 this crying about it is crap, we all know that the current format sucks (%50+ blowouts).

And lets be honest Votech are not standard public schools they pull from a much lager pool then say Glasgow, Dickenson, etc

Just test it for 2 years and see what happens
 
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BackinBlack86 said:
SO it would be something like 14 (7and7), 18 (9and9), 14 (7and7)
Click to expand...

There are currently 44 High Schools with Football teams in Delaware (Excluding the FCA Bucks). There are more teams at the lower end of the quality ladder than the higher, so it should probably be 12/18/14 with 6/8/6 playoff teams.
 
Titanium Shadow said:
There are currently 44 High Schools with Football teams in Delaware (Excluding the FCA Bucks). There are more teams at the lower end of the quality ladder than the higher, so it should probably be 12/18/14 with 6/8/6 playoff teams.
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There is 46 in the proposal above.. They are including Odessa and Early College. So I assume those schools plan to field a team if not this year then the next.. So I would go 14, 18, 14.

Odessa will probably be good enough with only 9 and 10's to compete in 1A for two years. They had 31 freshman players this last season if they get another 30+ then 60+ is plenty to be competitive 1A

The proposal above has it at 12-21-13

I believe the 21 is trying to cater to the whiners who don't want to be in 3A
 
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There was no vote yet.
The last meeting there was discussions about altering the points system if there is no realignment. And handing out bonus points for Division 2 team who plays Division 1 teams....as long as the Division 1 team reaches a certain number of wins. Therefore teams scheduling the Charters, Decastles, and Polytechs of the world would not find it beneficial to their point totals anymore. However, that too was not voted on.

so far there’s nothing but “talk” from these people and no action.
 
HSftballlaxFan said:
There was no vote yet.
The last meeting there was discussions about altering the points system if there is no realignment. And handing out bonus points for Division 2 team who plays Division 1 teams....as long as the Division 1 team reaches a certain number of wins. Therefore teams scheduling the Charters, Decastles, and Polytechs of the world would not find it beneficial to their point totals anymore. However, that too was not voted on.

so far there’s nothing but “talk” from these people and no action.
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Honestly they need to shit or get off the pot. Time to move on and make some change.
 
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So heard there is yet another proposal to try and accommodate the crying that is happening. In this new proposal they have Caravel, Delmar and Woodbridge in one division in D2A. Seriously?

Quick review of the past 20 years D2 Champs:
Howard - 3 and moving to D1 in proposal
Woodbridge - 2
Delmar - 5
Hodgson - 3 moved to D1
IR 1
Caravel 2 (Also lost 4 others)
STE 1
Milford 1 moved to D1
Concord 3 moved to D1

So let me get this right, take away the teams that moved to D1 there going to put over %80 of all other state champs into 1 division? You shitting me.
 
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