This is only something I’d like to have the group on this thread discuss after this weekend! The kids will battle and In the end we’ll have our champions! Maybe there are better options then a seeding commission as it’s comprised now?
Time to rethink DIAA brackets Individual State Championships
- Thread starter wings72
- Start date
Way long past time. Same with entire conference formatting and duals. Their "let's give more trophies" attitude has been abysmal. About 59 teams in DE
By way of comparison District 7 in PA has about 80 teams for example.They also have 8 man brackets/weight There are 12 districts .placers go to one of 5 regionals with 16 man brackets top 4 advance to states. 4 1st rnd 1st placers bies
By way of comparison District 7 in PA has about 80 teams for example.They also have 8 man brackets/weight There are 12 districts .placers go to one of 5 regionals with 16 man brackets top 4 advance to states. 4 1st rnd 1st placers bies
I think if you even go to a 12 man bracket for states, there is a possibility that you miss out on getting at least 1 top 6 placer on any podium. You have to take for account that kids show up for the big dance and a 7or 8 in a conference can compete each year. Much better than the fixed brackets. Did anyone notice less inj. Def and med ffts this year?
What's the argument for having less kids qualify for states ? That makes no sense. Who cares what pa or nj does. This is a whole different world. If you want more high level wrestlers in DE you need more kids engaged not less. If anything DE needs more well run clubs with more kids attending. Right now there is really 1
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I think you're all reading this wrong, unless I am, which is a distinct possibility.
I think the OP means it's time to rethink the way the brackets are drawn, which is only really alluded to by Concord. He has seen the other side and that is not anything any of you want.
Not much worse for a kid that takes an L in a tight conference final to see a conference champ the next round because the bracket was pre-seeded.
Good luck to all of the kids this weekend. Having stepped away from DE over a decade ago and wrestling altogether about 6 seasons ago, this really is the best time of the year. After driving to McDouough to see my Bullis kids wrestle at MD Privates I drove my son to Smyrna to watch the semi finals of the duals. From what I saw, DE Wrestling is in a good place. The SC/SMY dual kept taking my attention away from my beloved Salesianum program v. Milford.
It's a great sport, help keep it that way. This weekend, tell a kid they did great. Pat a kid on the shoulder. Grab a paper towel for the kids whose dream just died in the 2nd Round of Consolations.
Celebrate with a parent you've never met; better yet, celebrate a kid you think is a jerk. Hell, maybe talk to them in line for food or while looking at brackets.
Learn about the people and the culture in this sport, not just those that win, a lot.
There's a lot to be thankful for this weekend. Pray that they all make it through safely and most importantly that some idiot fan or parent doesn't make the show about themselves.
Thank You ! Concord and you get where I'm headed with this. Not going to argue for fewer kids, expand the bracket if you want? As I said not going to go into this until after this week . I'll go this far . In my opinion no kid that finished 1or 2 in his Conference should be seeded lower than 6th . Then the reseeding begins below #6 . Looks as if the commission did a good job with 1and 2 seeds further down the bracket it gets clo
Thank You . Concord and you get where I'm headed with this. As I said really don't want to go far with this until after this weekend. Not beginning the suggest we have less kids, expand the brackets for all I care. I'll go this far for now . No kid that finished 1or 2 in his or her conference should be seeded lower than 6th. After that the reseeding begins. I think the commission did ok with the 1st and 2nd seeds mostly.Further down the brackets it gets cloudy. Best of luck to all Wrestlers,Coaches,Officalsand Parents!
What if the head to head and common opponents criteria dictate they be lower than 6 ?
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That's my point. Maybe the criteria needs to be looked at ? It's only my opinion and a starting point for discussion. Done with this till next week
Im not sure what they dont like.Head to head and common opponents seems logical. I think im missing something or i might not understand the current seeding. I thought it was conference champs for 1st. Then the 2nd against conference champs and so on with head to head and common opponents. So an Independent champ can be a 7 if they lost to or lost to a common opponent of the 6 above them
The current seeding for every weight class is correct under the criteria in place. The only “flaw” as I see it is if there is an upset or even an injury to a top guy in any of the conference tournaments, until that winner can be seeded it doesn’t matter how good the runner up in the conference is, he can’t get seeded until the top guy does. I’ll try an example:
Say the Henlopen conference had a 3x State champ who was 28-0 at a weight class. In the finals the 3x champ gets spladled by a kid and pinned. Now let’s say the kid that won the match doesn’t have head to head wins over any of the 1st or 2nd or even 3rd place finishers from other conferences and has losses to a few of them. Under our criteria he can’t get seeded above those guys. The returning 3x champ can’t get seeded until the kid that upset him is seeded. In reality the 3x champ could end up as a 7 seed. Again the current system is better than we’ve had in the past, but we are basing the seeding on one event (Conferences) rather than the whole season
Now my position with my kids is that every match matters. If you wanna be a top seed, win conferences! I preach to my kids that every match matters all season!
Say the Henlopen conference had a 3x State champ who was 28-0 at a weight class. In the finals the 3x champ gets spladled by a kid and pinned. Now let’s say the kid that won the match doesn’t have head to head wins over any of the 1st or 2nd or even 3rd place finishers from other conferences and has losses to a few of them. Under our criteria he can’t get seeded above those guys. The returning 3x champ can’t get seeded until the kid that upset him is seeded. In reality the 3x champ could end up as a 7 seed. Again the current system is better than we’ve had in the past, but we are basing the seeding on one event (Conferences) rather than the whole season
Now my position with my kids is that every match matters. If you wanna be a top seed, win conferences! I preach to my kids that every match matters all season!
If they are gonna refuse to put a kid up before a higher placer goes up then they need to do true 2nd matches. Unfair to a kid that gets 3rd after losing to a 1 if he had a better season. Seeding gets botched at conferences as well
A true second won’t happen but it is one more argument not to rely solely on conference place when it comes to kids in same conference. Seeding for the conference could come in to play as you said. Losing to the #1 in semis or quarters and placing 3rd doesn’t mean the 2nd place finisher is the better wrestler. I know the state committee puts in a lot of time seeding states and there really is no perfect system. The system now is much better than the previous one as @ExYCP confirmed! Those of us that have been around a while have seen multiple changes to improve state seeded over the years.
For the majority of the weights most years the current system works. There will always be exceptions. Amd while I know know why he is where he is seeded, my exception this year for me this year would be Gray at 126. And absolutely no disrespect to the other wrestlers above him who had great seasons The kid is 3-1 against the conference champ with his lone loss against him in the conference finale. He’s been #1 ranked all season. Just seems he’s better than a 7 seed. It’s actually a disadvantage to the 2 seed who he will probably see in quarters. In the end the best wrestler will win and these kids are all competitors! Should be fun to watch.
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126 and 132 are really really solid top to bottom this year for what its worth it says to me DE wrestling is doing good
Agreed and I mean no disrespect to any wrestler or the committee! Just looking for ways to make the sport we all love more equal between the conferences. There has to be other things to look at ? At 145 you have a Blue Hen champion seeded behind someone that didn’t make the podium in the Henlopen Championship. No disrespect to that kid at all he’s a very good wrestler!! Just doesn’t seem right to me ?
well said! also to be the best you gotta beat the best!!!
This reminds me of the 126 bracket this year couple quarter matches could be finals.
? Seed ego? I don’t think anyone cares as much about their actual seed as they do where they fall in the bracket. I know as a coach I don’t give two craps about the actual number and more about who the kids have to wrestle.
I get the feeling that was probably directed at me although Black didn’t say it? The answer is no, not at all ! My only intention was to maybe begin to get some discussion started about ways to possibly improve the system? Maybe it’s as good as it can get?
I'll state my annual saying..."Placers worry about seeding. Champions worry about winning". If your goal is to just get to the finals, and hope you have the match of your life and beat a better kid to win states, you are not going into the tournament with a champion attitude. If you think you are the best in your wt class, it won't matter if you face a tough guy in the qtrs, semis or finals. You have to beat the guys in front of you to be champ. Score starts 0-0 for each kid. Handle your business and climb the podium. Everything else is old man talk around the keyboard or gym. Also, winning 1st or 2nd in any conference shouldn't mean too much if those knowledgeable can assess that other kids are better. That's why we got away from the formula we used to use. Delaware is small enough that most people can make an objective evaluation of each weight class. It's not like some kids are 6 hours away, and people never see everyone in that state. Good luck to everyone. There will be some upsets, but the best kids generally will be atop of the podium when the dust clears.
Man am I sorry I ever started this poast !! As I’ve said it wasn’t meant to do anything but start a discussion about improving the system for the kids . You and your knowledgeable friends should cancel Conferences if they don’t matter and pick the kids that make the show? I’m out of here , looking forward to a great weekend of wrestling and the season being over !!
I could make this really fun and talk about the sandbagging that used to happen when we had scripted brackets. Every year it seems when the top seed was a upset in conferences, they seemed to just pack it en enough to land in the Conference 4 spot that landed about where the 6 seed is on a normal 16 line bracket. Then at states, they'd get hot and begin taking lunch money on Friday afternoon and night. There was some serious calculus going on there.
Gray looks like he’s on a mission! That’s how you want to see kids react when they feel slighted. Simpson beat the Cape kid so semis are Gray/Klinger for the 5th time this year and Simpson/Grant in a rematch from earlier this season at Howdy Duncan.
Good luck to all the wrestlers today. Semis are set and always the best round!!!
126 quarters were awesome grey pins ankrom grant beat ball Simpson over fritchman all super tight
132 bender over knight was a great match
138 kammerer over o hara wisneswski over owusu in OT and jester pins obrien. Very exciting
132 bender over knight was a great match
138 kammerer over o hara wisneswski over owusu in OT and jester pins obrien. Very exciting
