I have to ask. They were both DQ'ed from the conference tournament. Two different reasons for being DQ'ed but I see that one is wrestling in the state tournament and the other is not. Why is this?
Handy vs Moyer States
- Thread starter DEWrestlingFan
- Start date
One of team has more support from the diaa & committee.
And Moyer is automatically in loser bracket. His "penalty" if you will is forfeiting first match.
No mention of a DQ on track for Moyer. I see where there is a DQ listed in the bracket for Handy but Moyer's just shows his lost. When you look at individual team penalties there are only loss of team points for Smyrna for Moyer infraction.
I was there when the ref DQ'ed him from the tourney and threw him out of the tourney. I guess all the people at the head table decided against the refs decision or talked him into going back on his initial call?
I was there as well... but I also saw a lot of talking going on after the fact so I believe you are correct in the assumption that the ref took back the initial call because as I stated earlier, there is no DQ for Moyer on track, but there is one for Handy. Fair? I don't know since I wasn't on the mat or near the mat when the initial confrontation was made, only saw the aftermath of it. Not to mention I was on head cold medicine all weekend.
Just food for thought; AND MIND YOU I WAS NOT THERE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED AND AM NOT DIRECTLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE INCIDENT.
With that being said, it seems this new format has brought MANY controversies in its first year. We have Kyle Mayo, who placed 5th at conferences because of an illegal slam NOT get into the tournament. Mayo has been a top 6 wrestler all year and has went to the tournament every year of his career and is the 5th or 6th best wrestler in that weight IMO. Yet, based off the wildcard, he was not chosen which is complete bull.
I also seem NUMEROUS wrestlers get seeded lower than others even though they have beaten common opponents when then other wrestler lost to the common opponent whichndoesnt make sense.
And for the DQs....it is the first year this system has been implemented. We MUST set a precedent. What are we teaching our youth that if they get DQd from a tournament they can still get cjosen? DIAA has used sportsmanship as it's core rewarding banners and giving awards. I am saying if it is the first year, a precedent needs to be made. And as I stated earlier, this is in general, I literally have no idea what happened with Moyer or Handy.
With that being said, it seems this new format has brought MANY controversies in its first year. We have Kyle Mayo, who placed 5th at conferences because of an illegal slam NOT get into the tournament. Mayo has been a top 6 wrestler all year and has went to the tournament every year of his career and is the 5th or 6th best wrestler in that weight IMO. Yet, based off the wildcard, he was not chosen which is complete bull.
I also seem NUMEROUS wrestlers get seeded lower than others even though they have beaten common opponents when then other wrestler lost to the common opponent whichndoesnt make sense.
And for the DQs....it is the first year this system has been implemented. We MUST set a precedent. What are we teaching our youth that if they get DQd from a tournament they can still get cjosen? DIAA has used sportsmanship as it's core rewarding banners and giving awards. I am saying if it is the first year, a precedent needs to be made. And as I stated earlier, this is in general, I literally have no idea what happened with Moyer or Handy.
I was thinking in a similar fashion but more along the lines of....There has been a lot of talk about the bad sportsmanship this year in particular and I think the officials and powers to be are fed up and want to set an example. However, I was really questioning if the Conferences/States is really the time to start cracking down. The time should have been earlier in the season ,in the hopes that this behavior would have stopped by the time of Conferences with such weight of importance.
I think the refs need to all be on the same page as well. There are very good referees in the state and I trust their judgement. Yet, maybe instead of it being subjective, perhaps there needs to be some clear cut rules with actions and their appropriate consequences. In this way, there is no controversy and no judgement calls. Obviously there will be some calls that need to be judgement calls but I believe we can have a standard to follow. I guess almost like the NFL celebration rules if that makes sense. For example, one we have is your straps must stay on while you are on the mat, and If they come off it is a team deduction.
Moyer's DQ happened after he had already lost his match in OT. Handy's match was stopped as a result of his. Regardless of the situation, it should be like every other sport....you get thrown out, you sit out the next competition, whatever it is...game 2, game 10, playoffs, state finals. The stage shouldn't matter. Take all the subjectiveness out of it. This situation as it is, stinks to high heaven
Nick I agree 100%. I won't even get into the slam that screwed the kid out of most likely being the 3rd place finisher. He only lost a close decision to O'Connor in the semis. Mayo had a Tech fall over the H6 from Woodbridge that was taken??? How does that happen? No doubt he should have been picked as a wildcard. I feel horrible for the kid. He's a great kid and had a very good year only for it to end like this. This alone makes me rethink how I feel about this new format.
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Because one is unsportsmanlike conduct (Moyer) the other was Flagrant misconduct (Handy) obviously the Flagrant carries a stiffer punishment.
It happens because the Woodbridge kid probably has a win over the B4. If you look the Henlopen 8 is the 12 seed and the Blue Hen 4 is the 14. Therefore Mayo never got a chance to even get on the board for discussion. He may have a win over certain kids but the person in front of him has to come off before he can be considered. I agree this was the biggest surprise to me of kids who missed the tournament.
I'd love to know who sits at the table making these decisions. Mayo was 28-4 going in. All 4 at-large slots went to Henlopen wrestlers. The kid was from Milford with a .500 record. Really?? I get that Henlopen has stronger wrestling across the board, but this was ridiculous. The committee wanted to have more control but it seems like they didn't want to really work things through especially with the seedings. Was Mayo gonna win, no. But he worked his tail off all season and earlier to the opportunity to get on the podium, and a few old heads with an agenda screwed him.
TOMMIE DO YOUR JOB!!!!!
I know that is probably how it happens and that's a flaw in the system. He lost to AI on a slam and that has to be considered along with his body of work. We have kids with flagrants that got in despite their losses and this kid 100% deserves to be in. A tech fall of the 9 seed (h6) means less than a loss by slam while winning says all you need to know about the new system.
We were saying it from the beginning. Blue Hen had the most to lose. The whole thing was devised to get additional Henolpen wrestlers into the tournament. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. Congrats, mission accomplished.
Yeah I feel.horrible for him. They need to have special circumstances with this system to allow wiggle room. It seems they followed the format they put in place and did not think of any of these situations; DQs, slams, etc. They NEEDED to come up with a special circumstance for Mayo on the spot, just like they did with Moyer. You can't "reevaluate" the system afterward while leaving deserving kids in the dist, especially their senior year. Mayo is the 5th or 6th best wrestler at that weight, and that weight, IMO, is the toughest weight in the state.
Something needs to be done. His only hope at this point, if DWA or DIAA doesn't step in, is that a coach understands the situation and pulls their wrestler for Mayo has he is the first alternate. Maybe a freshmen who has 3 more years to get in the tournament and place. I know it's hard to do because of parents etc, but it seems like the ethical thing to do for this young man.
Something needs to be done. His only hope at this point, if DWA or DIAA doesn't step in, is that a coach understands the situation and pulls their wrestler for Mayo has he is the first alternate. Maybe a freshmen who has 3 more years to get in the tournament and place. I know it's hard to do because of parents etc, but it seems like the ethical thing to do for this young man.
This was on of the reasons I was against the new system. If the point was to get the best 16 kids in then we have work to do.
Nick I wish someone would pull their kid but I don't see it happening. We talked at the meeting about wanting our best kids to go even if it meant your own kid doesn't make it and we didn't do that.
If some one told me that wrestling has turned into a popularity contest I would of never got into coaching. The entire system is flawed. If Mckean’s 220 pounder would of been DQ’ed after the finals or whenever I guarantee he would not be wrestling in the state tournament. During the Blue Hen Conference seeding meeting we spent over a hour talking about how the system was designed to have our best wrestlers represent our conference and people takes advantage of the grey areas! I was told that I had to delete my post from Facebook but i meant every word that I said! I mean worst comes to worst what will I have to automatically coach the in the consolation round?
How about the AI coach pull his kid. The kid got up and he told him to go back down and take the forfeit. It was his only chance of getting through Mayo.
Cheap....
WTF this is why committee choices never work because there is always an agenda let the kids do it on the mat...the old system was fine .. finish top 6 or 4 then your in,, period
No dog in the fight here but seems the old system was better. I will never ever ever agree with a committee of biased people picking kids. I pray that this young man somehow gets to states.
Did the coaches really tell him to stay down? How is that allowed? Shame on them if they did. Karma will get you.
Did the coaches really tell him to stay down? How is that allowed? Shame on them if they did. Karma will get you.
Is this a fact or hearsay? Anyone that was there know? That's an embarrassment to the sport if true.
If that is even remotely true... That any coach would have a wrestler give up or throw a match for ANY reason then he has to go..not acceptable if true
I was coaching Mayo that match. Once I thought about what could possibly happen I went over and checked on the AI wrestler the training asked him did he fall on his head? He said no it was his shoulder. She asked him could he do a push up and he did and went back down. She asked could he do another one he appeared that he was struggling and both of his coaches said that there was no way he could continue wrestling when he was already down by 10 points with 1 minute left. After the break he wrestled for 3rd place with no problem!
About the original post, my real name had it right in the second post. Smyrna has more pull with the DIAA and the Committee. Plain and simple, just the way it is and has always been. Their kid gets in, refs original decision will never be known, or how it was overturned, it's the Delaware way.
The Mayo situation points out major flaws in the current system. The commitee took about zero time to think out the bracket seeds. 8 from henelopen really? Pure and simple favoritism, down state politics.
A.I. Don't let them fool you. Just because they bowed out of the state tournament. Win at all costs is the motive over there. Seen it this year more than once. Did the kid stay down after the slam? Yup, sure did. Cheap way to get a win. It's not the first time I've seen it over the years. Loose a match to get on the better side of the bracket, it happens.
Let's get a Mayo thread started as this is getting lost in the Moyer, Handy thread, it's a little off topic.
The Mayo situation points out major flaws in the current system. The commitee took about zero time to think out the bracket seeds. 8 from henelopen really? Pure and simple favoritism, down state politics.
A.I. Don't let them fool you. Just because they bowed out of the state tournament. Win at all costs is the motive over there. Seen it this year more than once. Did the kid stay down after the slam? Yup, sure did. Cheap way to get a win. It's not the first time I've seen it over the years. Loose a match to get on the better side of the bracket, it happens.
Let's get a Mayo thread started as this is getting lost in the Moyer, Handy thread, it's a little off topic.
Unethical, you bet. A.I. Knows the rules and has all the connections. The SWC is a joke. Down State Politics at it best. 8 from the Henelopen is a joke at this weight class.
Back to the original post, the differance here is Smyrna was on top of it from the very beginning right after the match, got things changed up. Clearly knowing how to work things in their favor. It's kinda tough to change things up a few days later. Mayo got screwd over big time and everyone knows it.
Back to the original post, the differance here is Smyrna was on top of it from the very beginning right after the match, got things changed up. Clearly knowing how to work things in their favor. It's kinda tough to change things up a few days later. Mayo got screwd over big time and everyone knows it.
I have no dog in this fight but just to be clear. I am of the opinion if you get DQ'd from conferences then you don't go to states.. The wrong here is letting Moyer in not keeping Handy out
Very wrong to take Moyer and not Handy.
All about those connections!
These are life lessons... You do something and either a cop, teacher, judge, general public, wife, etc makes a judgement call as to what happens to you..whether it be be jail, restriction, labor, sleep in dog house whatever... point is there are consequences to your actions and they are not always fair...
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