Young coaches

[MTpLastKniGHt]

My name is Jacque Scott the assistant wrestling coach or Mount Pleasant. I understand that the new system was put into place for the state tournament to be tougher...better competition etc.. I’ve been around this sport for a little while now and like I said this is a sport of integrity and honor and I believe the best man will always win. In some situations the best wrestlers might wrestle in the semifinals it is what it is.
My coaches never fought to get me a seed so I can finagled the system! I never ran from competition if anything I wanted to wrestle the best!
If the system is used correctly without favoritism or who coaches who and where someone’s wrestles it will be fine. But too many politics and bias opinions are playing a factor.

My question is as a young coach how do I tell my kids that the system has failed them and that certain rules doesn’t imply because we come from smaller wrestling program?

I’m asking because I have never been so lost when it comes to the sport that I love so much.

 

[concord87]

This situation has me discouraged as welll and I've been around a few years. Still holding out hope that someone realizes we didn't do the job of getting the best 16 kids in and rights this wrong.

 

[anon_2etc7zewo6e8d]

That is a loaded question... to say you want help in telling kids that the system is "failing them" and that certain rules don't apply is basically giving them an excuse to defy authority. I've read your situation and have kept quiet. But now I can't because of this post. Honestly, bottom line... he was winning by close to a major ~ what was the point of the move he made with a minute left in the match. Kids need to learn that their actions have consequences and whether they are fair are not, it is what it is. To want to "change the rules" or to say "the system failed" is making excuses for a wrestler who did something wrong and was penalized for it. Don't want to pay the ticket, don't speed down the highway.

 

[MTpLastKniGHt]

That is a loaded question... to say you want help in telling kids that the system is "failing them" and that certain rules don't apply is basically giving them an excuse to defy authority. I've read your situation and have kept quiet. But now I can't because of this post. Honestly, bottom line... he was winning by close to a major ~ what was the point of the move he made with a minute left in the match. Kids need to learn that their actions have consequences and whether they are fair are not, it is what it is. To want to "change the rules" or to say "the system failed" is making excuses for a wrestler who did something wrong and was penalized for it. Don't want to pay the ticket, don't speed down the highway.

What’s your name so I know who I’m speaking to?

 

[Tackledummy]

That kid did nothing wrong. It was only an illegal slam because the arm was trapped. That could happen to anyone. The committee seeded the Henlopen 6,7, 8, over Mayo who ended up the BH 5. They did fail him. They would not have failed him if he was a Henlopen wrestler...I can guarantee tjat. Primo comment us among the most uneducated and ridiculous that I've heard on this board and that takes alot.

 

[soccer07]

Bottom line is the adults and their system failed the kid and he is paying the price. It’s not right. Simple fix, pull the trigger.

 

[concord87]

I think I just bit my tongue off but I'm trying to wait at least until we see what happens to vent. I will agree, knowing all of the facts, that this system put in place did not do its job in getting the best 16 wrestler into states.

 

[Tackledummy]

Concord, I give you credit for trying to be diplomatic, but the arrogance from downstate is truly frustrating.

 

[concord87]

Concord, I give you credit for trying to be diplomatic, but the arrogance from downstate is truly frustrating.

I hear ya but I've also talked fo friends that coach downstate who agree that he should be in. I've still gotta deal with everyone until Saturday evening! Lol

 

[proudscfan]

Concord, I give you credit for trying to be diplomatic, but the arrogance from downstate is truly frustrating.

Don't let the voices of a few speak for all.

 

[Tackledummy]

Proud, You're right but the comment above set me off.

 

[soccer07]

I hear ya but I've also talked fo friends that coach downstate who agree that he should be in. I've still gotta deal with everyone until Saturday evening! Lol

Then let’s see if their reps vote the solution put in front of them... Just talk at this point.
Do the right thing people.

 

[HandlinMyBiz]

Concord, I give you credit for trying to be diplomatic, but the arrogance from downstate is truly frustrating.

From a “Downstate Momma” let me say that I think that there is some confusion about what happened upstate vs downstate and ppl are lumping them all together. Especially after the Mayo situation was added to the same thread about the Moyer/Handy DQ.

So let me help some here....

No one Upstate is arguing any call whether they like it or not or think the opponent was truly hurt or not. The Coaches are willing to take the punishment and explain that to their wrestler.

What Upstate IS upset about is that this year a new system has been implemented in determining who goes to States and this new system has made Mayo not get the automatic place AND when the committee had a chance to see what has happened and pick this wrestler as a Wild Card choice they decided not to.

 

[Fightingbluehen]

So my question is, is this the only kid that got screwed?

 

[Tackledummy]

Lets be clear that Mayo was BH 5 , even with the DQ. The 6,7,8 in Henlopen were taken ahead of him even though he techd at least one of them. That tells me the committee either was accidentally negligent or only had their own guys in mind. Lets remember no one in BH was yelling that we need a new system. I'm jaded, I believe Henlopen got exactly what they wanted. That's more Henlopen kids in the tournament. Congrats.

 

[Wrestlehead55]

I just heard the committee let in pigtails at certain weights is this true

 

[concord87]

This wasn't an issue if committee members overlooking him. It was the new system. I'll try to explain. The committee starts with H1, I1 and BH1 on board. Once H1 comes off, it's H2,I1,Bh1 are on board. Then BH1 comes off, bh2 goes up and so on a so forth. So when they got to H5 through 8 they all had seeding criteria over BH4. So by the time BH5 (Mayo) was on the board there were only 2 spots left and Indy 3 and 4 (autobids) still hadn't been seeded so there were no wildcard spots.

Let's give them time. I have faith they will do the right thing.

 

[concord87]

I just heard the committee let in pigtails at certain weights is this true

Heard rumors but letting @MTpLastKniGHt confirm since he's the kids coach.

 

[MTpLastKniGHt]

So as of now the only thing that I know is that Kyle Mayo at 138 and Kevin Winton at 126 for MTP is in! What is yet to be confirmed is will the pigtail be a one and some are will the loser be able to wrestle back. I talked to someone and they said that the brackets could not be reseeded but “we” can try to make this right!

 

[Iowa hawk fan]

Heard rumors but letting @MTpLastKniGHt confirm since he's the kids coach.

Rumors are rumbling !! Honestly it's hard to believe they back peddled on the seeding issue.
With all of the issues in the south with DQ's, assaults, In the tourney out of the tourney at least they got one thing slightly right, now let's see the brackets and the rules surrounding the tourney

 

[GorillaDE]

The problem for Mayo results from the "no leapfrogging policy." Henlopen 8 was seeded above Blue Hen 4, and, according to like opponents and record, rightfully so. Since BH5 can not leapfrog BH4 and BH4 was seeded below H8. H8, according to how the rules are written, was given the last at large spot in the tournament. Henlopen wanted the best 16 kids in the tournament, and yes, believes that it does mean, in this day and age, that more Henlopen wrestlers make it. But it was not the intention to leave out a deserving wrestler from another conference.

 

[taway]

Lets be clear that Mayo was BH 5 , even with the DQ. The 6,7,8 in Henlopen were taken ahead of him even though he techd at least one of them. That tells me the committee either was accidentally negligent or only had their own guys in mind. Lets remember no one in BH was yelling that we need a new system. I'm jaded, I believe Henlopen got exactly what they wanted. That's more Henlopen kids in the tournament. Congrats.

The way the selection works means that it doesn't matter that he tech'ed a kid selected ahead of him. The committee does not simply throw every kid on the board and unscramble them. For each weight class, the #1 finisher is placed on the board. The committee uses a point system to determine the best of *just those three on the board*, with head-to-head, common opponents, etc. playing a factor. Once the best wrestler of *just those three* is seeded, the next placed wrestler from that conference moves onto the board.

So, for 106 - when H1 was determined to be the #1 seed between H1, B1, I1, he goes to the bracket and H2 moves onto the board to be evaluated along with the remaining two, B1 and I1. In 106, H2 was determined by the selection criteria to be the next best wrestler so he goes to the bracket and H3 moves up to be compared with B1 and I1. Until a wrestler *in that conference* moves off the board, no wrestler placing below him *in that conference* can be considered. It was for this reason that the Mayo kid did not get selected. Until the B4 came off the board he was not considered. The Henlopen kids got seeded ahead of B4 because the selection criteria said so, not because of any bias or home cooking. It was simply the case that B5 was not considered until B4 moved to the bracket. Once B5 was on the board, from what I see, the only remaining wrestlers were I3 and I4 who had to be seeded.

I am not saying this is right or wrong but that is how it worked. I hope this gives some clarity to the situation so we can stop suggesting bias played a role in the selection or that it was a 'Henlopen' thing.

To your point about "no one in BH yelling that we need a new system" - I understand that the whole idea for the new system was suggested by a BH guy.

 

[concord87]

I'm just happy kyle and your other wrestler will get to wrestle in the state tournament! I'm sure he will come ready to wrestle after thinking he wasn't going to be able to wrestle at all.

 

[smack.jack99]

Concord, I give you credit for trying to be diplomatic, but the arrogance from downstate is truly frustrating.

Lol oh the irony.... downstate is arrogant? Lmao, you’ve got to be kidding me.

 

[Iowa hawk fan]

Taway,
To your point about "no one in BH yelling that we need a new system" - I understand that the whole idea for the new system was suggested by a BH guy.

Would you care to say who the BH Coach was that suggested this? If true it should not be a problem. If you say Vic, I'll spit coffee on my computer screen, thanks.

 

[taway]

Lol oh the irony.... downstate is arrogant? Lmao, you’ve got to be kidding me.

How dare those dumb rednecks....

 

[Tackledummy]

Yeah, when Henlopen is complaining about the system for years and BH knows they have no influence, they have to eventually fall in line or get run over. You can bet your last nickle that this would not ever have been an issue if this was a kid from the south. They would have figured it out before the seeding even happen.

 

[myrealname]

i hear that they have a caviar station at Cape this year for states. I hope they have Beluga Sturgeon. It's my favorite!

 

[Iowa hawk fan]

i hear that they have a caviar station at Cape this year for states. I hope they have Beluga Sturgeon. It's my favorite!

Wait, now your going, LOL.

 

[myrealname]

Wait, now your going, LOL.

Not if Moyer stays in and Handy is left out. I've made alternative plans!

 

[HandlinMyBiz]

Not if Moyer stays in and Handy is left out. I've made alternative plans!

Last I knew DQ meant DQ but then again that was before everyone started getting participation trophies

 

[Dahammer23]

That is a loaded question... to say you want help in telling kids that the system is "failing them" and that certain rules don't apply is basically giving them an excuse to defy authority. I've read your situation and have kept quiet. But now I can't because of this post. Honestly, bottom line... he was winning by close to a major ~ what was the point of the move he made with a minute left in the match. Kids need to learn that their actions have consequences and whether they are fair are not, it is what it is. To want to "change the rules" or to say "the system failed" is making excuses for a wrestler who did something wrong and was penalized for it. Don't want to pay the ticket, don't speed down the highway.

I am sure if this was your kid in the situation you would be saying that he got slighted. To say someone should've eased-up because they almost had a major, you obviously have never wrestled or competed. Your talk is very arrogant and uneducated, stay on the sidelines and watching your kid! The wrestling mat is a battleground, and you're on it to win. Although I would not like to see someone get hurt or return to the mat in that manner it's not as though he kicked, punched or did something intentionally to hurt the other wrestler. The worst part about this is they've scarred this boy for life because of politics! And he has no chance that it again because he is a senior. "DON'T SPEED DOWN THE HIGHWAY!" (Really) lmao!!

 

[Takestime]

I am sure if this was your kid in the situation you would be saying that he got slighted. To say someone should've eased-up because they almost had a major, you obviously have never wrestled or competed. Your talk is very arrogant and uneducated, stay on the sidelines and watching your kid! The wrestling mat is a battleground, and you're on it to win. Although I would not like to see someone get hurt or return to the mat in that manner it's not as though he kicked, punched or did something intentionally to hurt the other wrestler. The worst part about this is they've scarred this boy for life because of politics! And he has no chance that it again because he is a senior. "DON'T SPEED DOWN THE HIGHWAY!" (Really) lmao!!

The committee revisited the issue and fixed it. As far as the young man being scarred for life? Really? A bit of an overreach to say the least.

 

[AllHeart28]

Scarred for life may not be the correct wording but I can tell you this;

I still have wrestling matches that I lost (especially the close ones I felt I could have won) that still haunt me to this day. And I KNOW that there are a number of former wrestlers, if not all, that feel the same exact way that I do. If I think about these matches for too long it puts me in a bad mood the rest of the day. And I haven't touched the wrestling mat since I was 18 and I am now 30 years old. So 12 to 16 years later, these matches still haunt me!

 

[GorillaDE]

I'm just happy kyle and your other wrestler will get to wrestle in the state tournament! I'm sure he will come ready to wrestle after thinking he wasn't going to be able to wrestle at all.

Still can't say the same for Handy.

 

[Dahammer23]

The committee revisited the issue and fixed it. As far as the young man being scarred for life? Really? A bit of an overreach to say the least.

"Overreach", not at all. You never reflect with regret from high school?! Now imagine working hard yowards a goal and having someone take it away for no valid reason. But hey, you might be perferct.

 

[spartakos]

@All..
a good night out with my Posse and I will have you forget about all those life changing matches!!
hahaa
see what I did there 84?

 

[concord87]

Still can't say the same for Handy.

Did laurel even try to get him in? I haven't heard a word about it from anyone.

 

[84rider]

The worst part about this is they've scarred this boy for life because of politics!
“young man”
See what I didn’t do right there....

 

[84rider]

"Overreach", not at all. You never reflect with regret from high school?! Now imagine working hard yowards a goal and having someone take it away for no valid reason. But hey, you might be perferct.

Yes overreach, not sure if you are being genuine or fur bushing...if you are being genuine then I applaud your tenacity but life changing, common. This young mans road is just beginning. With the out pour of support he has received, I’m inclined to think he will be and do just fine...